getting along or avoidance.....you decide

by SpiceItUp 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  SpiceItUp

  In the spirit of Minimus, as I just caught his thread about getting along with others here, and it posed a seperate question for me that actually came into play for me yesterday. I'm not going to go into detail on that but the question remains nonetheless.

  Where do you draw the line at getting along with someone or merely just avoiding confrontation? This comes into play in everyones life. Do you play friendly just to keep the peace or do you always without a doubt stand up for yourself and your beliefs no matter who may get hurt. I think most want to have a nice balanced middle ground but where do you draw the line?

  When does standing up for yourself and beliefs infringe on others rights?

  when does keeping the peace turn into a cowards way out of not trying to make anyone mad and lead to getting walked on and end up with never taking a stand?

  Yes we all know about *tact* but as ex-witnesses do we lean to one extreme or another and why?

  Is it something ingrained in us as former cult members or is it something that is bred into us as human nature?

  I used to be that person that would go out of my way to make people like me. I got walked on so much I should have been called "matt". Somewhere down the line something clicked for me and I stopped doing that much to the annoyance of "friends" that liked to take advantage. Needless to say they are no longer friends of mine. On the other hand I have turned to be quite blunt and sarcastic at times and have been known to hurt feelings simply because I refuse to sugar coat things and will stand up for myself. I have found myself closer to that middle ground as I learn more about human behavior but I still refuse to get walked on by anyone.

  Does it really matter what ground we operate on? Do we either become an arrogant user or a low self-confidence doormat? (makes me think of that office phrase: accept that some days you are the pigeon and other days you are the statue)

  Any thoughts on how you approach this, why you do, does it work and how does it make you feel?
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  Hamas

  For the most part, when I feel I have to make a point, I will, doesn't matter who it is.

  On very odd occassions, I will simply say whatever they want to hear. In fact, I think that tactic is best, shame I can't employ it enough.
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  rocketman

  I try by all means to be friendly to keep the peace. I don't like confrontation, and I try to look at things from other's points of view whenever possible.
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  Country Girl

  Well. when it comes to certain issues, I will stand up and be counted. As an example: I recently lost a friendship of twenty years. She was my "soulmate" of friends. We had been best friends, really tight, for the whole of those twenty years. She was mostly the dominant one. I mostly aceded to her wishes because to fight with her was a waste of time and breath; and the issues that she had a conflict over I didn't care about. When she met me, I was a waste of human breath. I was getting over being in the JW's and had a severe depression. She stayed with me, helped me, nurtured me. I sincerely was useless. I couldn't even balance my own checkbook because I was so depressed. I lost all my "worldly: friends. WHen they realized how sick I was, they just bailed. Her, she tried to constantly help me, took me under her wing (even though she was younger than I was) and tried to make me see a different sort of life. WIth her help, I was able to make it through. We were both pregnant at the same time, and we had a boy and a girl within six weeks of each other. She was 18, I was 24.

  Time passed and our lives led different paths, but we were always in contact with each other and took up the friendship like it was yesterday.

  Recently, she started dating an XJW. She brought him to live in her home after five weeks, which I thought was impulsive. She was so desperate to get a man at that point she would have done anything. Come to find out, this XJW's x'wife dated my brother and was one of the reasons he was reproved when he was a teenager. My friend told her teenaged daughter that she didn't want her friends to know that they were "living together" because it would insult his family <whom haven't talked to him in six years> and that her friends would raise a living fuss. Her daughter, because she can'thandle her, is living in the Texas Baptist Children's home. She was home for a weekend. This man, who had only been living with my friend for one week, and dating her for five weeks, decided that HE would discipline this "juvenile delinquent" who lived with his girlfriend. My friend's daughter was at home for the first time in WEEKs, finds out that her mother is living with this freak boyfriend, and didn't even get the time to know his name before he is telling her what to do, how to do it, how long to do it, etc. Of COURSE she bucked his "heavenly design." When she rode with me in the truck to our New Year's Eve destination on a ranch, she was telling me how he'd ripped the cable out of her room so that she would come down to the family room and be a FAMILY with this XJW freak she only knew for one day. She said that he ordered her to do the dishes, and because she didn't jump, he dragged her up the stairs to the kitchen and gave her rug burns. I saw em! I asked her what did her Mother do, and she said nothing.

  I was there on the ranch for 1 day, and I saw how he treated my friend and her daughter, and I was sickened. I left one day early. When I got home, I called Child Protective Services, the Texas Baptist CHildren's home.. and told what I saw. My friend called me on Jan 4 and I told her in no uncertain terms what her daughter had told me about that guy. She said it was NONE OF MY BUSINESS.. and hung up on me.. and said she had handed the discipline of her wayward daughter over to this creep. I asked her if she was "farked in the head"? How could you hand over discipline to a man that has only known your daughter for ONE weekend? I called back over ther and spoke to the girl, but it was purely by design that her Mother was coaching her on what to tell me. Her Mother told me that her daughter was making this stuff up to get them in trouble. I just finally called the police. They didn't do anything because they went over there and said that she wouldn't tell them anything.

  So yes.. to answer yoiur question.. when it involves something I feel passionately about.. I speak up.

  CG
• 

  teejay

  Where do you draw the line at getting along with someone or merely just avoiding confrontation? Do you play friendly just to keep the peace or do you always without a doubt stand up for yourself and your beliefs no matter who may get hurt. I think most want to have a nice balanced middle ground but where do you draw the line?

  Interesting questions, Spice.

  The precise answers can at times be difficult to reach. IMO, several issues come into play – to me the most important being: What happens or who gets hurt (if anyone) if I don't stand up? Conversely, what happens or who gets hurt if I do? There are many examples of when and how these questions might impose themselves on us—nazi Germany; the Deep South prior to the Civil Rights era; seeing a small child all alone locked in car in the hot sun. Many times we can and probably should let things slide. Other times, standing up and speaking up is the only right thing to do.

  Personally, even when nothing is gained or lost, I don't think there's EVER a time when it's wrong to stand up and speak in behalf of your or someone else's rights. I can't think of a single instance when it would infringe on someone's. Of course there is a respectful way to speak to people—as it's been said, a true diplomat can tell someone to go to hell in such a way as you'd look forward to the trip—but if that's accomplished, what possible harm is done?

  Our personality type plays a role in determining how far we are willing to go. Recently, on my job I took something called a DISC personality test. One of its findings for me was that I am "often willing to intercede for another on their behalf" and that I have "a strong sense of justice and loyalty." I see myself that way and remember many times – all the way back to grade school – when that aspect of my personality clearly came to the fore. I have a hard time sitting quiet when I feel an injustice has been or is being done. (Probably never seen any evidence of that here, but it's true!) Other people, every bit as moral as me (if not more so), aren't as bold about speaking up. People react differently to the same stimulus. That's not likely to change.

  Then finally, there's the matter of life itself teaching us that maybe we need to change the way we do things. As you discovered the need to speak up for yourself, others (like me) need to learn to chill a bit more often – realizing that not every issue is of life-altering importance. It takes time and a willingness to admit we aren't perfect.

  But no, IMO speaking up for yourself or others is never wrong. Like so many things, though, it's all in the presentation.

  tj ~ who remembers seeing Spice recently as she reasoned very well with a fellow poster over the matter of iggy... in another place
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  Matty

  I got walked on so much I should have been called "matt".

  
  
  A reference to me here eh perhaps?
  
  I don't particularly like confrontation for confrontation's sake. Theres nothing wrong being diplomatic and concilliatory, I don't consider this cowardly in any way.
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  Francois

  In my experience most people do not recognize the true strength of gentleness. It is viewed as weakness by most everyone except others who practice this form of gentleness.
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  Undecided

  I've had very few confrontations in my life, don't know why but I guess I'm pretty easy to get along with. There's been a few instances where I had to restrain myself from bashing someone's face, and after the problem was over I was glad I didn't. I hate disagreements and fussing. I was at my step-daughters home a few minutes ago and her son and daughter were having a disagreement. He called her a fat lazy bitch(she weighs about 250lbs) because she hadn't done something he needed done. She is lazy, but he shouldn't talk to her that way. I tried to tell him to calm down(he was talking to her over the cell phone) but I just said goodby and left. I can't solve their problems.

  Ken P.
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  Kingpawn

  Spice,

  when does keeping the peace turn into a cowards way out of not trying to make anyone mad and lead to getting walked on and end up with never taking a stand?

  One example would be the case cited earlier of a child locked in a hot car with the windows up. I'd be surprised at (and full of contempt for) anyone who wouldn't do what was needed--try and locate the parent, call the police, even smash the car window--depending on how much obvious distress the child was in.

  Years ago I saw a parent beating a child repeatedly for what I considered no good reason. I called Children's Services. Apparently my name was given to the parents because the father (who wasn't there) later let it be known "some people should keep their mouth shut."

  Everyone has things that are definite "I'm going to say something" issues, I'm sure. As TJ said, people, the issue, their culture, are going to be some factors that make them choose how to respond. Maybe giving someone a bit of a "pass" now might open up a chance for dialogue and change later?

  Speaking up infringing on other's rights...well, if a person criticizes affirmative action in a recently riot-torn city and by doing that increases the chances of mob action against particular minority groups, that's a case for toning it down. Same with using hate speech to work for the defeat of some legislation that "benefits" some group you have a moral issue with--"hate speech" meaning slurs, appeals to stereotypes, etc.

  The question of speech infringing like that...a problem here and elsewhere is that ideas are supposed to be what's being batted around, but soon it's people instead. If A says "Here's what I think about ______," and B asks questions with a desire to know more, great. But when B responds with flames, A gets defensive and the mortar rounds fall. Are flame wars inevitable? My guess: no, but sometimes very difficult to avoid.

  I'd say that if by one person speaking, that doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights, cool. If the speaker has the power to enforce their view, and does so, that's wrong. For example, a police officer who allows (or let's say doesn't work hard to prevent) vandalism of patron's cars at a strip club, but tickets and harasses the customers for any minor infraction possible. The message sent is obvious, and rights aren't being equally enforced.

  To label someone's actions when faced with a series of choices like this as either avoidance or getting alone--how would you score it? What's right for me may be seen as cowardice by someone else.
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  Jayson

  You pose a very good question. Long, but good. Strait up no I don't keep quite. I do not lie. I do not play games. What's sad about that is often people who I respect disrespect me because I won't fall in line with them. If the tables were turned would they fall in line with me? No, and that is why I respect them. Some people go through thier whole life and never experience the freedom of self. And that is sad. I think that Mini likes to keep things simple. And simple is good. I need to remember that when I enter his threads.

  To modern times, I have been looking back to the times of Ronnie in America. It was like now. Same people too screaming the sky is falling. No big deal. In a few years someone new will be around for us to bicker about. Religon and politics always open to debate and infuriate.