60 Minutes

by teejay 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • teejay
    teejay

    I really enjoyed last week's 60 Minutes (airing Sunday, May 6). I had taped
    it and forgot to watch it until this Saturday morning… darn! Missed another
    meeting for field service!!

    The segment, "TV Network With a Big Mouth" was about the first 24-hour
    news channel in the Arab world. The network is bankrolled by the Amir of
    Qatar, Sheik Hammed Al Fani. His goal in creating the network was "to
    provide knowledge and new ideas to the Arab world." He saw the need for
    it to be an independent entity beyond the control of the State and so one
    of the first things he did when assuming power was to disband the government's
    official Ministry of Information (a likely misnomer).

    With 50 correspondents in 30 countries, including the U.S., it discusses
    subjects that have been taboo in the Arab world. While it broadcasts sports,
    weather and cultural programming, its emphasis is on news -- current events,
    investigative reports, interviews with Arab leaders, documentaries.

    The network is a revolution in progress. In every other Arab nation, the
    news is dispensed and controlled by the gov't. Therefore it's not surprising
    that Arab governments view the network with deep hatred since they can no
    longer control the flow of information and tell people only what they want
    them to hear. In the past, Arabs who wanted the whole story would have to
    turn to Western media outlets. Now, for the first time, Palestinian people
    hear the news and news events, often live, from Palestinians. The network is
    not above pointing the finger at their own people as being responsible for
    wrongs that are committed. Leaders of Arab countries have bitterly
    complained about and to the network, some even recalling their
    ambassadors and closing down its news bureaus.

    It seems that having the dispensing of the whole story usurped by an upstart
    is not something that is appreciated anyplace. For some reason, I thought
    about the governing body.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Right after that story was the re-airing of "Back to My Lai" about two
    American soldiers who were present in March, 1968, when nearly two
    hundred Vietnamese civilians were marched to a nearby ditch and
    summarily gunned down by a platoon of American troops. It reported how
    these two soldiers -- men of extraordinary conscience -- bucked the system,
    resisted all of their military training as well as the orders of their leaders by
    having the bold audacity to see eleven Vietnamese women and children as
    more than just "the enemy" but as people, as fellow human beings, with
    basic human rights.

    From the air Larry Colburn and Hugh Thompson, the pilot, saw the
    massacre of My Lai, and took it upon themselves to rescue as many as they
    could from the hands of their American brothers who were set to murder the
    civilians. "Back to My Lai" was about their apprehensive return to the
    village to see what had become of the place, to answer questions asked of
    them by the people, to meet old friends. More than once Thompson broke
    down emotionally as forty-year-old memories came back to vivid life.

    In 1969, an American soldier who was involved in the killing was asked
    about his part in it:
    -- Private "M": "I might've killed about, uh, ten… fifteen of 'em.
    -- Question: Men, women and children?
    -- Private "M": Men women and children.
    -- Question: And babies?
    -- Private "M": And babies.
    -- Question: Why did you do it?
    -- Private "M": 'Cause I felt like I was ordered to do it. At the time, I felt like
    I was doin' the right thing, I really did. [A day after the massacre the
    Private lost a foot in a mine explosion, punishment, he figured, for his
    personal role in the killing of as many as fifteen people (one foot for the
    lives of fifteen humans… sounds about right to me.)]

    After affirming that he was married with two little ones of his own, he was
    asked how a married father with two small children of his own could shoot
    babies. "I don't know -- it's just one of them (sic) things."

    The segment cut to the men on the helicopter who, from the air, viewed the
    horror of the massacre. The pilot of the chopper, Thompson, was told by his
    crew chief that there was a young one moving in the ditch, now a bloody
    pool, where the people had been gunned down. Being the father of a young
    son of his own, the pilot landed the machine immediately, and without
    hesitation the crew chief jumped from the chopper and waded through the
    bloody pool over the dead and the dying to reach the small but living little
    boy.

    While in painful mid-recollection, a 73 year old woman came from the
    village, an elderly woman who forty years previous had her life spared by
    the action of these two men before her now. She thanked him for his "great
    help" that he gave her that day. Thompson also expressed thanks that he was
    able to help her then, but deep sorrow for those that he didn't. She asked
    what it was that made them so different from all the others who'd done the
    killing. "I thought about my own family," he said. "I was taught not to
    murder."

    Lt. William Calley was shown leaving the military courtroom where he was
    convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison for his part. Light
    applause greeted him as he got into the car that whisked him away to the
    stockade and later many around the U.S. treated him as a great American
    hero. Another of the commanders on the ground at My Lai, highly
    decorated Capt. Ernest Medina, was questioned at trial if he himself saw
    any killing of old men, women or children. "No, I did not." Colburn and
    Thompson testified that, after calling for help in behalf of a young girl,
    personally saw Medina walk over, nudge her and taking a step back, blew her
    away.

    I tried but was not able to watch the segment with dry eyes.

    The purpose of this post is not for me to comment on how these two men
    are likely to be viewed by the average red-blooded gung-ho American --
    betrayers, anti-American Commies, punks, and crybaby wussies -- or the
    rightness or wrongness of America's involvement in SE Asia, or whether or
    not the Calleys and Medinas and Kerreys of the world should immediately
    face a firing squad ala McVeigh.

    What I wondered is what the elderly Vietnamese woman wondered, the one
    who asked what made Thompson and Colburn different from all the others.

    Why, as people from the same "in god we trust" American soil and having
    likely received the same "You Must Not Murder" religious instruction, why
    or how is it that people can be moved to act so differently by the same
    circumstances, especially when another person's life and happiness is
    at stake.

    How can one elder, or many elders, or most elders know the Watchtower
    policy dealing with pedophiles and simply follow orders with out a second
    thought, while others, rooted in the same soil, see the evil that's inherent
    and feel forced to make a stand? What is it that makes us so different?
    I think it's a question well worth finding the answer to.

    Two stories that on their surface are totally unrelated. One about a forty-
    year-old episode of an armed conflict half a world away and the other about
    a news network in modern-day Arabia. Yet I saw a common thread within
    each of them. Both stories were about THE TRUTH, the whole truth, and
    how distasteful it's discovery can be -- both to those not wanting it known, and
    to those who do.

    peace to all, and have a mah-velous weekend…
    todd

  • crossroads
    crossroads

    Teejay-HERE-HERE.I've been sticking up for TIM on the
    board not because I approve of what he did. But because
    of our countries way at not looking at ALL child killers the
    same. Those three you mention never have to fear the
    needle. I ask why not? Kerry If he can white wash enough
    of the story could still be our next president. And I'm not
    positive but didn't Calley get out only serving a mimimun
    sentence.

    What are country does do for terrorists;
    Manachin Beigian-I know I trashed the name:Only 20 years
    or so after being a terrorists who killed innocent Palestinein
    childern( I know they are not real childern certainly Christ
    didn't die for them) He was elected Prime Minister of
    Isreal and all he needed to do was ask for the might of
    are military and we would have been PROUD to give it to him.

    Yesterday mr. bush (sorry no respect ) said TIM should be
    happy he lives in a country like ours seeing as what happened.
    Yeah If only TIM was palestinein he could have been the
    biggest terrorists of the past 50 years killed many innocent
    Isrealie childern(it's ok they don't believe Christ died for them)
    Then the US could have rolled out the red carpet for him
    when he would land in NY to give a speech at the UN.
    The president would even invite him to the White House and
    shake his Blood soaked hands. While kissing his ass to
    try and make peace in the Middle East.

    Teejay I hope WE a get true news station like this here in
    the US only then will Jefferson stop rolling over in his
    grave every 25 years and looking out and saying" Don't
    they all realize it's time for a REVOLUTION

    Crossroads-from the darkside or am I in the light?

  • Francois
    Francois

    Elders who look the other way due to the society's policy on hiding pedophilia should remember one basic fact: the defense that says a person was only following orders was tried at Nuremberg - and we hung every one of the murderous s.o.b.s

    Elders - your time is coming.

    There are JWs who have said that if the Watchtower came out with an article that said each witness was to buy an assault rifle and go to a crowded catholic service and kill as many catholics as possible, they would do it. "I don't expect that to happen," said one witness, "but if the Watchtower said to do it, I would."

    Evil. Pure, distilled, undiluted evil.

    Francoise

  • CornerStone
    CornerStone

    Hello again TeeJay,

    A very interesting and sobering post. After spending almost a decade in the Armed Forces it was my friend who studied with me who put this proposition to me:

    I am a soldier and I consider myself a Christian. I am then sent to another part of the world with my rifle in my hands. I come across a field and see another soldier with HIS rifle in his hands. He is from the other side and he ALSO considers himself to be a Christian. At a standoff, I am now in a position to "blow my Christian brothers brains out!" What am I going to do!? The answer, is not to have put myself in that position in the first place.

    Shortly after thinking about this, I made the descision to leave the military. I never thought about this before. I'm not saying that everyone should leave the military or that there is no such thing as a "just war", I'm just saying that my conscience was so affected by that parable that I could no longer justify my actions.

    Interestingly, how much longer do you think the GB can "justify" their actions when it comes to broken families and crushed spirits?
    I think they are fadeing out and being, or have already been, replaced by a cool, efficient corporate machine, faceless and impersonel. Dedicated to keeping the wheels turning by increasingly burdening the flocks backs.....until they break! They have much to answer for, in this world and in the next.

    CornerStone

  • silentlambs
    silentlambs

    i think there are elders like thompson within the wt. with over 22,000 resigning in the last three years it appears many no longer have the conscience to pull the trigger. when i resigned it was like a great weight was lifted off my shoulders. i felt i was no longer supporting what was morally and ethically wrong. i had a meeting with four key elders in the circuit shortly thereafter. it was like trying to reason with a stone. so many just do not think or want to understand the real issues involved. to go against wt in anyway is a commitment too many are afraid to make. the result is there are fewer and fewer "thompson's" left to do the right thing.

  • teejay
    teejay

    Crossroads,

    I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from, but I'll make a stab at it.

    First of all you said that you've been sticking up for TIM on
    the board not because I approve of what he did. But because
    of our countries way at not looking at ALL child killers the same
    .
    I put McVeigh in the same box as I do Calley, Medina and even
    Kerrey. I think some of McVeigh's concerns are very legitimate,
    but what he did, how he went about addressing them are
    indefensible. I cannot and will not defend him or stick up
    for
    him. What he did was morally repugnant. He was
    wrong and deserves whatever happens to him. Likewise,
    morally grounded people find it impossible to defend the
    actions of any war criminals regardless of nationality or
    background (including the three mentioned above).

    At the end of 60 Minutes last week, Andy Rooney defended
    Kerrey, calling him a hero no less, while admitting that Kerrey
    committed a horrible act but "for the right reason." If that is an
    accurate definition of "hero", isn't McVeigh also a hero? Didn't
    he do something horrible but that was, to him, for the right
    reason? No. None of these people are heroes. They (and all
    like them) are pathetic human beings deserving of the exact
    same fate.

    One thing is pretty clear about the situation in the Middle
    East -- the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is a very complicated
    mess and is not likely to be resolved in our lifetime. But I
    agree with what I think your point is, that both sides of the
    issue are non-supportable by reasonable people who have a
    high regard for justice and what is right. It was/is wrong for
    the U.S. to proudly embrace either side of this sticky issue.
    They both alike deserve severe and ongoing censure for the
    atrocities that have been committed against innocent people.

    peace,
    todd

  • teejay
    teejay

    Francoise,

    i agree with every word, every letter, you wrote.

    i repeat your words and may they resound with the
    thunder of Divine Justice:

    Elders - your time is coming.

    take it to your heart.

    peace

  • teejay
    teejay

    silentlambs,

    >>i think there are elders like thompson within the wt. with over 22,000
    >>resigning in the last three years it appears many no longer have the
    >>conscience to pull the trigger.

    Great analogy, one that couldn't be missed after seeing "Back to My Lai"
    and having men of conscience such as yourself and the pedophile case in
    mind, men willing to speak against entrenched authority and simply do what
    is right, freely paying whatever the cost.

    >>when i resigned … i had a meeting with four key elders. it was like
    >>trying to reason with a stone. to go against wt in anyway is a
    >>commitment too many are afraid to make. the result is there are
    >>fewer and fewer "thompson's" left to do the right thing.

    I see good and bad in this. The good is that fewer men and women of
    conscience are willing to just shut up and do what they are told. They have
    begun to think, to use their minds and hearts for the betterment and well
    being of others, especially those too small and powerless to defend themselves.

    The bad, the potentially awful flip side of this, is that the situation they
    leave behind is one where the overall atmosphere becomes worse as
    there are fewer and fewer men in positions of authority who might
    lessen the impact of the company men who are predisposed to blindly
    follow written (and implied) edicts of Brooklyn without thought. I hate
    to think of it, but the possibility of harm coming to the little ones increases
    with the departure of each man of conscience. God help every one of them.

    Godly peace to you and your family my brother,
    todd

  • crossroads
    crossroads

    Teejay-Does a morally grounded person have the
    right to take one mans life while calling another a hero
    and making him a senator a leader? A leader who at
    his moment in time in which to lead he followed.
    MORALLY GROUNDED PEOPLE- please show me
    Who's morals?
    Who's ground?
    What people?
    These morally grounded people are as wrong in taking
    TIM's life as HE was in taking others.
    Kerry, Calley, Ike, Truman, Bush Sr., Rockefeller, Nixon,
    King David, Apostel Paul(Saul), My older brother( two tours
    of Vietnam), my brother-in-law, my favorite cousin,
    I could go on-a life is a life one no better than the other.
    I would like to "know where all the flowers have gone"
    and where these morally grounded people are. I sure
    would enjoy meeting and talking to them.
    These people only exist in ones "Imagine"nation,
    But I'll keep dreaming.
    Peace and Love
    Mark

  • teejay
    teejay

    crossroads,

    ok, now you're starting to scare me. Not really. :-)

    >>Does a morally grounded person have the right to take one mans life
    >>while calling another a hero and making him a senator a leader?

    At times, yes. (Anyone who messes with my daughter will soon find more
    trouble than they bargained for.) Beyond that ready example, history holds
    many other examples of people who did that very thing -- took a life (or
    many) and could still be pointed to as bona fide heroes. Such ones more
    than qualified as leaders. Are you talking about Kerrey in particular? I
    will not defend him or what he did any more than I will Calley. They are
    one and the same to me. Neither are anything close to what I'd call a
    hero.

    Again, not being totally clear as to your meaning, I assume that you refer to
    McVeigh's impending execution being an ironic finish for him, since he is
    considered evil for having taken lives himself -- he takes a life, or many, so
    let's call him evil. As punishment, let's do the 'right' thing and kill him. I
    get your point. It only demonstrates for me the fact that it is possible to over
    philosophize and debate simple foregone truths.

    Put simply, some people don't deserve to live and we know who they are.
    Some people show by their behavior that they are a detriment and a danger
    to the health and well being of common people. They are like a cancer of
    the body that should be removed if the body is to remain intact. Tim is one
    such individual, imo. A society that hopes to remain free and civilized must
    take it upon itself to act on behalf of the good of the majority. What is that
    good? I will not debate it with you because I think you already know. Or
    should.

    >>These morally grounded people are as wrong in taking TIM's life as HE was
    >>in taking others. Kerry, Calley, Ike, Truman, Bush Sr., Rockefeller, Nixon,
    >>King David, Apostel Paul(Saul), My older brother( two tours of Vietnam),
    >>my brother-in-law, my favorite cousin, I could go on-a life is a life one no
    >>better than the other.

    Technically you are right. I am not totally settled in how I stand on capital
    punishment. But, it is more than the life itself but rather what one does with
    it that makes it worthy or even superior to another. Those who make a
    conscious choice to do harm to others for no reasonable cause are wrong. In
    the case of those who accept induction into the army, others refuse and pay
    whatever penalty is demanded of them. They have the freedom to exercise
    their free will and conscience. I personally know of those who refused to
    fight in Viet Nam, both for religious and ethical reasons. So, for example, is
    your older brother (two tours of Vietnam) guilty? You can make a case that
    he is. While he may have "served his country", there are more substantial
    and abiding (over-riding?) issues than the often capricious edicts of national
    leaders. There is the matter of personal conscience.

    Taking of human life is wrong, unless we're talking about the person who
    messes with my daughter. In that case, that particular mufukka deserves
    whatever I do to him. Period.

    peace,
    todd - who liked the book A Time to Kill

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