by run dont walk 57 Replies latest jw friends
OrbitingTheSun, I've never heard it put like that, but its so true.
It was the hypocrisy of it all that got me. If you were an elders son/daughter you could get away with everything. And so many thing s got covered up, while at the same time saying how important it was to do everything right. I then started thinking about the teachings, and seeing how much it changed over the years, and the total control over the congregation.
Hidden pictures. In one watchtower there was a picture of an angel watching over two women in the witness work. In the folds of the angel's robes there was a subliminal demonic face drawn in. When I was showed this picture after the book study one evening, I was floored. I had read and studied that article and never noticed the subliminal picture. If the Watchtower was "a letter from Jehovah," then why would he allow "apostates at Bethel" to hide demonic faces in the pictures?
Then I was told about Ray Franz and that there were apostates at Bethel.
Then I had a lot of trouble reconciling the Creation book with scientific fact. I worked hard to think of credible theories to explain these discrepancies. By then, I really wanted to believe.
<sigh>
Tammy
I guess even as a teenager I had issues with disfellowshipping, trying to predict the end of the system of things even though the bible says no one can predict it not even Jesus knows, and the whole you can read our literature but no one elses. I figured if other religions got things wrong about JW's maybe the JW's get things wrong about other religions, besides if JW's had the truth there is no harm in reading other material, because I would only see the truth clearer. The final turning point though was 9/11 and the lack of love shown by the brothers during that time.
Though I just let any doubts go by, I realized I was a "gonner" when I shed tears of sorrow at the baptism of one of my kids. I knew they had just put themselves under the critical, unloving, judgmental hand of the elders. Those with me assumed I was crying tears of joy. It still took me at least a couple of years to leave, fade out.
The first time I doubted the WTS was after I heard of the 1975 debacle.
I saw a tip of the mountain of information where the WTS predicted 1975 as the “end”. I thought, “Geez, I would have thought the same thing about 1975 based on the WTS’ info if I was around then too.”
Then the supposed “apology” in the 1976 WT where the WTS placed blamed on those who believed in that date, and the WTS took no responsibility.
The straw was when the WTS then said in the 3/15/80 WT that; “In saying "anyone," The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date."
That was the most back-asswards apology I have ever heard. It was all downhill [uphill ] from there.
I've always been intuitive. That must come with being an artist. I can feel bad vibrations at the drop of a hat. I can sense things that others might miss, and at first I thought I was crazy. I've learned to trust my intuition since then, because it mostly proves right.
My first doubt came when I was 9 years old and I checked out from the Kingdom Hall library "The Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin. I read it front to back at 9 years old. I guess nobody missed it, cuz it was still in my possession twenty years later. Later that year, at 10 years old, I realized that a lot of the dog manure they were telling me didn't make a lot of sense. YOu see, I read the Bible during the meetings. I didn't have a complete understanding of it, I just only KNEW that it wasn't right.
I sat through the same boring meetings ya'll sat through.. and it was as boring to me as it is to you now.... the same drone of the speaker, the same songs (copied from other religions) but it never struck me that this was a cult.
So.. now.. I still think JW's are nuts.. and they are a cult.. and that's just how it is.
CG
I forgot to put this in my earlier post (I guess because it's Monday morning). But I remember an even earlier time of doubting, and that was when the Society denied saying 1975 would bring Armageddon. They said that this was never anything that they had said, only that it was the end of 6000 years from Adam's creation. They said some people had in their zealous exuberance jumped to the conclusion that Armageddon must occur then and the whole thing was basically a rumor. They basically blamed the rank and file for the whole thing.
Yet my mother, another sister, and myself got to talking about this and we distinctly remembered the WTBTS publishing that 1975 would see both 6000 years AND ARMAGEDDON. I was young enough back then that I trusted my memory. While not believing that the Society would lie to us, I did wonder how they could be so mistaken about this.
Tammy
Howdy Folks,
DAWN:
you said: " * If all creation is only 6+ thousand years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? "
Just to clarify, THIS IS NOT THE TEACHING OF THE SOCIETY/JWS, JWs acknowledge and teach that the "creative days" spanned millions and millions of years and that the Earth itself including all pre-human creation (including the Dinos) lived/occurred millions of years ago. As drwtsn32 correctly pointed out, it is a JW teaching that MANKIND is only approximately 6000 years old.
I am not sure if you were confused by that, I sometimes encounter even active JWs that don't understand this distinction.
SWAN:
I am sorry but the whole subliminal images thing is a non-issue that is so ridiculous and silly it isn't even funny but I don't fault you (much) for subscribing to what is a popular fallacy believed by many persons or agreeing with anything you have read in forums such as these on the Net--since even some otherwise rational anti-JWs have latched onto this pseudo-science as another support for their cause.
However, i f you did some homework on "subliminal messages" and human psychology/behaviour, you would learn that they DON'T WORK, have NO EFFECT, and are generally purposeless.
It is humourous to hear you describe the drawing as a "demonic face." I wonder was that your own conclusion? Sounds very JW-like to me. Maybe the face could be a "happy troll" instead? Or a "scowling ogre?" hah, hah, hah....
Anyway WHAT PURPOSE would a deliberate attempt at subliminal messaging be aimed at? Ask yourself that. All attempts at subliminal messaging (which don't work) always have (don't work) a purpose that the creator (don't work) of the message is attempting to achieve.
(don't work)
If the WTS wanted to pursuade ones to demonic purposes it would be far easier to just teach false doctrines (some here agree that they do) on the bare face of the magazine and from the platform. THEY DON'T NEED TO RESORT TO SOME OBSCURE DRAWING THAT 90% OF THEIR READERS WOULD NEVER SEE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
The above is mentioned, although I do not agree with all the so-called instances of subliminal messaging that has been pointed out before, in many artist's renderings there are squiggly lines here, and squiggly lines there,
the human brain WANTS to recognize familiar patterns and translates them into meaning for us, it is part of our biology.
It is why you understand :) two dots and the right side of the parenthesis to be a "smile" or two circles, an arc enclosed by a larger circle to be a FACE
We see these patterns in life, out of leaves, in the sky, on walls, in the dirt, and in drawings, pictures and portraits. They are NOT SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES only patterns which we create into meaning ourselves.
-----
Eduardo
Eduardo, the WTS did teach that each creative day was 7,000 years long, including the 7th creative day that is why in 1970 it was explained (I take it you born after 1970 or were very young then):
2/15/70 WT p 119 The Days of Creation from God's Viewpoint
Just how long, then, were these "days" of creation? The Bible gives us a clue as to the length of the seventh day. Since these "days" were all part of one ‘week,’ it would be reasonable to conclude that all these "days" were of the same length.
As regards the length of the seventh day it is indeed of interest that the Bible says nothing about ‘an evening and a morning,’ a beginning and an end to the seventh day as in the case of the other six days. This is a meaningful omission. The record simply states: "God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work."—Gen. 2:3.
The only logical conclusion that we can reach is that the seventh day has continued right on. Does the Bible support this conclusion? Yes, it most certainly does, for it speaks of Jehovah God as still resting thousands of years after creation.
And as the words of the apostle Paul are applicable to Christians today, it follows that Jehovah has been enjoying his sabbath or rest from physical creation almost six thousand years now.—Heb. 4:9, 11.
This accounts for 6,000 years. Is that the length of the seventh day? No, because we read that "God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred." Its outcome must be "very good," and that is not true of present world conditions; so the "day" must still be continuing. Actually these six thousand years have been, as it were, man’s workweek, in which he labored by the sweat of his face. But he will get rest during the coming thousand-year reign of Christ, which Bible chronology and fulfillment of Bible prophecy show is to begin very soon.—Gen. 2:3.
Thus we find the seventh "day" of the creative week to be seven thousand years long. On the basis of the length of the seventh "day"
it is therefore reasonable to conclude that each of the other six "days" also was a period of 7,000 years .
This length of time would be ample for all that the Bible tells us took place on each of the six days of creation.
Clarification on this point was not clearly explained. Many older JWs still remember this. When the Isaiah book was studied, it was a new point to many long-time JWs and confusing. The WTS just snuck it in and hoped no one would notice. This concept above was the foundation of the end coming in 1975: 6,000 years of human history ended in 1975 according to the WTS, 1,000 years left for the Millenial Reign of Christ.
I have other articles from that time that support that, Eduardo. But us old time JWs remember it well.
Blondie
Strangely enough, initially it had nothing to do with doctrine. It was just that doing everything that you are supposed to do made (and still makes) me absolutely miserable. It was (and still is) always "hurry, hurry there," and "you must do more here." That and the total lack of a sense of well-being. If religion or belief system can't provide that, what ultimate good is it?
