Has anyone considered the possibility that the Judge in this case could have been bribed? I wouldn't put it past the wt to try. I wouldn't put it past a judge to accept... wouldn't be the first.
cb
Judge: Elders NOT required to report abuse
by Nathan Natas 65 Replies latest watchtower scandals
-
-
AlanF
Outnfree posted:
Rule 505. Religious Privilege A priest, rabbi or ordained or licensed minister of any church or a duly accredited Christian Science practitioner shall not be required to disclose a confession or confidence made to him or her in his or her professional character as spiritual advisor unless the person confessing or confiding waives the privilege.
and " the present NH statute concerning who must report":
Who Must Report . . .
- Psychologists; therapists; Christian Science practitioners; priests; ministers; rabbis;
Clearly, the statutes make exceptions to the "privileged communication" rule in two cases:
1) The person confessing or confiding waives the privilege -- which is precisely what Sarah Poisson did.
2) Any case whatsoever involving suspected child abuse, except communication between client and attorney.
Therefore Judge Groff has made at least two grievous legal errors, and there is a strong basis for appeal.
One wonders why Judge Groff failed to do his duty in this case. Was strong pressure from religious interest groups brought behind the scenes? Is he approaching retirement and does not want to get involved in a potentially extremely controversial case? Did he simply want to pass the buck on to higher courts? I suppose time will tell.
One thing is clear: Groff's ruling flouts the law, and flouts common sense.
AlanF
-
Pork Chop
Naw, the judge was actually a Witness mole that's been undercover in his role as a judge just in case this issue came up.
-
sf
One wonders why Judge Groff failed to do his duty in this case. Was strong pressure from religious interest groups brought behind the scenes? Is he approaching retirement and does not want to get involved in a potentially extremely controversial case? Did he simply want to pass the buck on to higher courts? I suppose time will tell.
Good questions Alan!! Why don't you go a step further and call him and ask him directly? Or perhaps an email.
Why don't you ask him if he might allow you to break it all down for him and where it is he errored dangerously?
You can show him the light Alan.
And while you are at it, call FOXNEWS and tell them what an outrage this ruling is and WHY. If anyone can break it down, it's you Alan. Stop 'bitching' and get out there with your "schtuff"!
Good luck!
sKally, DO MORE klass!
-
AlanF
Skally said:
: Why don't you ask him if he might allow you to break it all down for him and where it is he errored dangerously?
It's a truism in the legal arena that anyone who approaches a judge outside the court about a case in which he disagrees about the ruling is looked upon as a nutjob, and not worthy of an answer.
Very JW-like, to be sure, but that's the reality. Questioning a judge, inside but especialy outside the courtroom, is generally looked on by everyone in the legal community the way JWs look at questioning the Governing Body: How dare you!
AlanF
-
willyloman
No matter what the courts say or do, these 'elders' will burn in hell.
-
UnDisfellowshipped
AlanF said:
Clearly, the statutes make exceptions to the "privileged communication" rule in two cases:
1) The person confessing or confiding waives the privilege -- which is precisely what Sarah Poisson did.
2) Any case whatsoever involving suspected child abuse, except communication between client and attorney.
Therefore Judge Groff has made at least two grievous legal errors, and there is a strong basis for appeal.
One wonders why Judge Groff failed to do his duty in this case. Was strong pressure from religious interest groups brought behind the scenes? Is he approaching retirement and does not want to get involved in a potentially extremely controversial case? Did he simply want to pass the buck on to higher courts? I suppose time will tell.
One thing is clear: Groff's ruling flouts the law, and flouts common sense.
Very, very important information! Thanks for posting it!
Let's see, that Judge may be facing pressure from the following groups, which probably have their own pedophile cover-ups going on:
The Roman Catholic Church
The Mormons (Latter-Day Saints)
Definitely the Jehovah's Witnesses
Who knows how many other groups?
Freemasonry?
Shriners?
7th-Day Adventists?
Southern Baptist Covention?
Pentecostals?
Scientoligists?It is a shame that the Judge (most likely) caved in to that pressure.
-
hawkaw
Guys,
I really don't want to go into this too much but seeing you, sf, pulled out Rule 505, look exactly to what Rule 505 applies too. I think there is Rule 1101 if memory serves - hint hint.
You will note that rule 505 only applies to evidence rules in court. In other words when should a witness testify. The rule does not apply reporting a case of child abuse. Reporting Child abuse falls under s. 29 to 32 (I think) in N.H. statute RSA 169.
Having said all that and after reading the decision, I am still wondering why we even had this hearing in the first place. His Honour definitly wasn't thinking too clearly on this. I really think he bought into defence counsel's motion on this. So we shall see what we can do.
As for other comments about His Honour's motives and duty failures - Well, I'm a little disappointed - no I'm very disappointed at some of the comments. I don't think stuff like that should be stated when we have actually won numerous motions in this case up to this point. The guy made a mistake and got goofed up on which statute to apply.
That's why we have motions to re-consider and appeal. The only problem is that it will extend the case a little and will really cause a lot of hurt to the Berry girls and Sarah.
hawk
-
Nathan Natas
The phrase "clergy of elders" does not occur on the Watchtower Library 2001 CD.
A search for the phrase "no clergy" returned 53 hits. Most of these hits were part of the phrase "no clergy-laity distinction."
Here's a sampling:
WHO ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES? (tract) 2001
"No Clergy Class
Everyone dedicated to God is equal in His eyes. True worshipers are all brothers and sisters. God did not appoint an elevated clergy class. Jesus said: “Everyone that exalts himself will be humiliated, but he that humbles himself will be exalted.” (Luke 18:14) God will judge adversely those who through religion elevate themselves over others.—Matthew 23:4-12."JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES: PROCLAIMERS OF GOD'S KINGDOM 1993 Chapter 15, page 204
"The Bible Students were keenly interested in understanding not only Bible doctrine but also the manner in which God’s service was to be performed, as indicated by the Scriptures. They realized that the Bible made no provision for titled clergymen, with a laity to whom they would preach. Brother Russell was determined that there would be no clergy class among them. Through the columns of the Watch Tower, its readers were frequently reminded that Jesus told his followers: “Your Leader is one, the Christ,” but, “All you are brothers.”—Matt. 23:8, 10."INSIGHT ON THE SCRIPTURES 1988, Volume 1, Article "Congregation," pages 499-500 --
"..Gatherings for the worship of Jehovah and a consideration of his law were important in the congregation of Israel. (De 31:12; Ne 8:1-8) Similarly, meetings for the worship of Jehovah and a study of the Scriptures are an essential feature of the Christian congregation of God, the writer to the Hebrews admonishing the recipients of his letter not to be forsaking such gathering of themselves together. (Heb 10:24, 25) Activities in the synagogues of later Jewish history included the reading and teaching of the Scriptures, the offering of prayers, and the giving of praise to God. Such features were carried over into places of Christian assembly, though without the ritualistic accretions that had eventually developed in synagogue services. In the synagogue no sacerdotal class was set apart, sharing in Scripture reading and exposition being open to any devout male Jew. Comparably, no clergy-laity or similar division existed within the early Christian congregation. Of course, neither therein nor in the synagogue did the women teach or exercise authority over the men.—1Ti 2:11, 12."WATCHTOWER, April 1, 1981 "Insight on the News," page 15
"Interestingly, Jehovah’s Witnesses have for years followed the direction of the Founder of Christianity that “all you are brothers,” and have no clergy class among them. "WATCHTOWER, October 15, 1974, "How are Jehovah's Witnesses Different?" pages 630-631
"NO RITUAL, NO CLERGY-LAITY DISTINCTION
At the meetings of the congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses (of which there are more than 30,000 throughout the world) there is no ritual. The meetings are for education—study and discussion of the Bible. The appeal is not through highly charged emotional displays, but by an intelligent yet warm approach that appeals to mind and heart. There are no membership dues or assessments, no tithing, and no collection plate is ever passed. The expenses of maintaining their Kingdom Halls are cared for by voluntary contributions. These halls are not ornate and image bedecked, but are neat and functional.—2 Cor. 8:12-15; 9:6, 7.There is no clergy-laity distinction. All, regardless of race or social status, are “brothers” and “sisters.” As among first-century Christians, a body of elders is appointed to oversee the activities of the congregation and to provide spiritual help to all. These men are selected on the basis of their Christian maturity, their love, their concern for and willingness to help others. They receive no salary and have no religious titles designating them as a special class, above others. They share in the work of preaching and teaching in the homes of the people, as did the apostles, and as do the rest of the congregation’s members.—1 Tim. 3:1-7."
WATCHTOWER, June 1, 1971 "Are You Waiting For The Call?" page 330
"10 Another reason why many feel there is no place for them in the service of God is due to the clergy-laity distinction that is fostered in the churches. However, there was no clergy-laity division in early Christianity, and there is none today in true Christianity. Whether one has a heavenly hope or one hopes to live forever on the paradise earth when God’s will is fully done here, still each one has a responsibility before God as a minister in harmony with what is set out in the Scriptures. The setting apart of a clergy class dates back to Babylonish, pagan worship. No precedent for it is found in the ministry of Jesus or his disciples."WATCHTOWER, September 15, 1971 "Set Apart From The World" page 564
"22 All who seek a place in the redeemed society of mankind thereby come into association with the happiest people on earth—Jehovah’s witnesses. These are the only people who know for a certainty where they are going. (Rom. 5:1-5; 8:19-21) They are the happy slaves of the happy God. (Matt. 5:3-12; 1 Tim. 1:11) What a contrast they present to the formalistic, sanctimonious religious sects of Babylon the Great! In going to the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s witnesses, one finds no cold aloofness, no embarrassing ceremonial, no saluting of idols or symbols, no exalting of creatures, no clergy class, no passing of collection plates, no bondage to creeds or traditions."WATCHTOWER, November 15, 1971 "How The Holy Bible Is Regarded " page 677
JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES—Their Teachings and PracticesThey really believe the Bible and endeavor to live by it, using it as their guide in all matters of life.—2 Tim. 3:16, 17.
There is no clergy-laity distinction among them.—Mark 10:42-45.
Their religion is not a set of rituals but a way of life.—Rom. 12:1, 2.
They keep free from racial discrimination.—Acts 17:26; 10:34, 35.
They insist on honesty and moral cleanness.—1 Pet. 1:14-16; 4:3, 4.
“Perhaps the most notable thing about the Witnesses is their insistence upon their primary allegiance to God, before any other power in the world.”—“These Also Believe,” C. S. Braden (Acts 5:29).
They honor and respect and use God’s own name, Jehovah.—Ps. 83:18.
They believe that Jesus Christ is truly God’s Son and that all hope for future life is dependent on faith in him.—Acts 4:12.
Instead of warring against their fellowman, they have in every country ‘beaten their swords into plowshares . . . neither will they learn war anymore.’—Isa. 2:4.
They believe that in the very near future God’s kingdom will destroy the present wicked system and will transform this earth into a Paradise.—Dan. 2:44; Luke 23:43.
Each Witness has a part in sharing the good news from God’s Word with others. They are active today in 206 lands.—Matt. 28:19, 20."
WATCHTOWER, April 15, 1959 "Why Jehovah's Witnesses Are Different" page 255
"What are meetings of Jehovah’s witnesses like?
They are quite unlike orthodox church services. For instance, no collection is ever taken; contributions are wholly voluntary. At the meetings the Bible is studied, in conjunction with Bible study aids. There are upbuilding discussions in which all can participate. No one is looked down upon either because he is a beginner in Bible knowledge or because of economic circumstances. There is no clergy-laity distinction." -
Gerard
If the supreme court does not take care of this stupidity, I'll no longer believe or trust the US legal system.