I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

by BeaverEater 137 Replies latest jw friends

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    As I see it : Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism ,nd Judaism was an offshoot of whatever before that ,what`s next GOD ?

    And GOD has had no problem allowing and tolerating many other Major Religions to exist and flourish on this earth.

    As well as many other people with no belief in a personal GOD at all.

    And yet the world still turns around , night and day still follows one another ,and life just keeps rolling along.

    Does mankind have to invent theories as to how it all began with no verifiable evidence to support those theories whatever they are ,all with no verifiable evidence ? or do we just accept the fact we are all here ,life goes on whether you believe or don`t believe in a personal God.

    Is the Bible any more believable than the Koran / or any other religious scripture ever written ?

    I don`t believe any GOD has put his stamp of approval on any religious text or writings ever.

    If their is a GOD and he/she doesn`t care why should we ?

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Sea Breeze:

    Jeffro, have a good evening. You know that my evidence comes from the Holy Bible. I have no problem quoting scripture in a discussion so that my worldview is at least consistent.

    The stories and other assertions found in the Bible are claims, not evidence.

    If you ever want to disclose how or why you have such great faith in the laws of logic, without acknowledgement of a lawgiver, I'm always up for the discussion.

    I do not have, nor do I require, 'faith' in the 'laws of logic', and your claim that these 'laws' require a 'law-giver' is a false equivalence. Like the 'law of gravity', the 'laws of logic' are simply descriptions of the way things are, not prescriptions.

  • cofty
    cofty

    You have more patience than me Jeffro.

    You know the evidence for Christianity is tenuous when apologists resort to such sophistry.

  • jhine
    jhine

    Beaver you say that you are not an atheist because it makes no mathematical sense . So I'm curious do you believe in something?

    Jan

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion - yes, it is interesting.

    Evolution via natural selection has selected *for* religious belief amongst Homo sapiens.

    What this means is, humans always have had - and probably always will have - some kind of belief or interest in 'God', 'the afterlife', etc.

    ^^^ That may be infuriating at times, but it's just a fact.

    Please get in touch with me when you've considered this fact of human behaviour in a sensible manner.

    Thank you.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    The stories and other assertions found in the Bible are claims, not evidence.

    And, the unfounded assumption that the universe appeared out of nothing (the standard atheist worldview) and that all phenonoma is a product of chance, chaos, and disinterested self-guidance is also not evidence.

    That is a fallacious strawman argument. It is not the question here is it Jeffro? We are talking about consistency and logic - correct thinking. The question that thinking people what to know is how atheists come to put so much trust in things like logic in a chance and self-guided universe? It is an inherent inconsistency.

    Like the 'law of gravity', the 'laws of logic' are simply descriptions of the way things are, not prescriptions.

    That doesn't make any sense. Gravity is a description of the way matter attracts other physical things. It is irrelevant to abstract thoughts like laws of logic, laws of morality etc.

    If I say a proposition has the opposite truth value of its negation, what aspect of the physical universe am I talking about? Likewise, If I say it is wrong to steal from your neighbor, what part of the physical universe am I describing?

    And, while we are on the subject of relevancy, why would a consistent worldview be important to someone who believes that we are products of Big bang explosions, chemical accidents and copying mistakes?

    In my worldview, I am obligated to try and think correctly because God himself created me with the capacity for correct thinking. Since I don't always think correctly, I need laws of logic to keep me on course. That makes sense.

    But, in your worldview - why should you care about correct thinking at all? Why care about universal morality? And, how can you account for its existence?

    In other words, since blind chance cannot account for such laws, you have to borrow God's laws in order to argue against a biblical worldview.

    You are like a man giving a talk about the non-existence of air, while breathing air to make your case.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Arrogance in equal measure with ignorance.

    Let's say for the sake or argument that atheists have no idea how to account for anything at all.

    You still have all of your work ahead of you to show that an unscientific, ahistorical, contradictory, morally repugnant Iron Age book has anything interesting to say let alone the proposition that we ought to organise our lives around its ramblings.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Sea Breeze:

    And, the unfounded assumption that the universe appeared out of nothing (the standard atheist worldview) and that all phenonoma is a product of chance, chaos, and disinterested self-guidance is also not evidence.

    That is neither the prevailing view in cosmology nor anything to do with atheism. The funny thing is, your ‘solution’ is that the universe appeared out of nothing, and an infinitely complex being just always existed. Both without evidence.

    Gravity is a description of the way matter attracts other physical things. It is irrelevant to abstract thoughts like laws of logic, laws of morality etc.

    Both are descriptions rather than prescriptions. The fact that they describe different types of things is irrelevant. And you made this objection just after you compared ideas in a book with the existence of the physical universe. 🤦‍♂️

    I don’t have the time or inclination to continue dealing with your nonsense right now.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    See Breeze:

    laws of logic, laws of morality etc

    See Breeze possibly thought this false equivalence would get past me, but I just didn’t bother earlier.

    ‘Laws of logic’, like the ‘law of gravity’, are descriptions, not prescriptions. But the separate concept of ‘laws of morality’ are subjective (for example, in the Bible under ‘God’s perfect law’ 😂 , slavery and murdering Amelekite babies are ok, but aren’t generally accepted in polite society).

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    People just want to believe in something.

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