Ah, here it is
The Watchtower Society and Corporate Manslaughter
by nicolaou 27 Replies latest social current
-
-
nicolaou
Hi Nicolaou,
My point was that JWs are a religion and their religious beliefs are based on their interpretation of the Bible.
The Watchtower is already well on its way to making the blood issue a conscience matter, if this new law speeds that up I am certainly in favor of that.
I just think that too many times on this board we view the Watchtower only as a corporate entity, forgetting it is very much a religious entity as well ( Sorry IW but I honestly can't see the Watchtower Society as anything but a publishing and recruiting corporation operating under a pseudo-religious front. Where is the charitable benefit this religion brings to the community? What suffering does it help to alleviate? What education or literacy programs does it offer to non-members? What outreach programs does it promote? Don't tell me that the preaching work or Ministry School do any of that - they are just recruitment in training and practise. ) and will under the law defend itself both on religious and corporate grounds. They are fighting what they consider is a religious war against the world and Satan, ( The Watchtower 'Corporation' know that the reality is a little different. They are fighting a propaganda war against the media and former members who know too much. ) they use the legal tools they have and here in the U.S. freedom of religion is something which is almost sacrosanct, a great tool indeed!
In addition:
Jehovah's Witnesses who refuse blood for themselves or for relatives are not silent bystanders in all this. They almost always take direct action themselves to avoid a transfusion. ( True, but what leads otherwise rational human beings to take this action in the first place? Who has led them to this position? ) Most do not want transfusions and will do whatever they can to avoid them. ( Most do not want to be disfellowshipped and will do whatever they can to avoid it. ) They are active participants. ( They are coerced participants. ) This is an important point here, imo. We believed, we acted. ( The belief was based on flawed reasoning and dishonest representation [ read the 'Blood' booklet]. The actions are the consequence of this misinformation and deliberate coercion. ) How this can be translated into corporate responsibility, ( How can it NOT be! ) Watchtower corporate neglect etc., is hard for me to understand. ( Then try harder. ) It is the religious overseeing body, the GB, that is responsible for the blood doctrine not the corporation. ( So what? The principle of responsibility still applies. Forget the law for a moment, don't you think the Watchtower should be held accountable for it's enforcement of lethal doctrines? ) Individual Jehovah's Witnesses follow the lead of their religious governing body not a corporation.
If we raised our children to refuse blood at all costs and if they follow through on what we taught them, we are to an extent responsible. Not responsible for their death but for acting in ignorance, for believing what others believed and taught us to believe as well. I truly believed. I would not have signed the blood cards and taught my children to refuse blood if I had not truly believed. I would have refused a blood transfusion for any of my children, I would have let them die. I truly believed. ( An honest point well made IslandWoman, I too used to be just like that - it makes me shudder. With hindsight though I can see that what I once considered to be a deeply held religious conviction arrived at through my own prayerful research and efforts was in fact nothing of the sort. I was duped, conned, manipulated. )
Refusing blood is a religious belief, one in which the believer is an active participant and facilitator. The Bible said not to eat blood and we believed that transfusion was the same as eating the blood of a dead animal. There are many flaws with their blood doctrine but it was swallowed hook, line and sinker by almost all of us including the powers that be at Bethel. We acted on our beliefs.
The deaths of children due to the blood doctine are on the heads of all of us who believed, all of us who went to meetings and accepted the blood cards, all of us who gave talks or comments at the meetings citing the Biblical support the blood doctrine has, all of us who passively went along or worse disagreed but remained silent etc. I say this because the children and their parents saw a great crowd of people both locally and around the world who were, or seemed to be, in full agreement with the Jehovah's Witness blood doctrine, surely in their minds this added strong support for their own beliefs.
We were wrong. The Watchtower was wrong and so were we.
Yes we were wrong. I accept my part in promoting this heinous policy during my years as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. But now that we (and you) have greater knowledge we also have greater responsibility. As vigorously as the Watchtower tried to instill this terrible mind set into it's millions of members, we must try to stop it. If this new law of Corporate Manslaughter is one tool that can be used to bring pressure to bear on the Watchtower then it has my full support. I would encourage all UK posters to write to their MP and bring to their attention this new law and it's possible implications as far as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Britain is concerned.
Nic'
-
IslandWoman
Nicolaou,
I believe it is safe to say that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York or Pennsylvania will never be bothered with the kind of corporate law you speak of if it is applied to the blood issue.
I believe that here in the U.S. it will not fly. In the U.S. this is religion, and religion has its own independent place here. Maybe in the UK it's different.
IW
-
nicolaou
religion has its own independent place here
Do you think it should? Should religious institutions have a protective wall around them that shields them from the law? What about the protection this has afforded to child abusers in many different religions? What about the abominable ritual child abuse called circumcision practised by millions of Jews and Muslims? How about the divisive caste system fostered by Hinduism?
Sorry to bang on about it but religion sucks! It shouldn't have it's own independant place, it should be exposed to the same realities and penalties as the rest of society.
Nic'
-
ballistic
I have been trying to find out what people mean when they say the society are backing down on the blood issue making it a conscience matter. Is this in black and white anywhere? I always said I would see red if that ever happened, their altar being full of the blood of the innocent.
-
IslandWoman
Nicolaou,
It shouldn't have it's own independant place, it should be exposed to the same realities and penalties as the rest of society.
Extreme religious practices such as animal sacrifice etc. are not allowed in the U.S.
Religion in general should be free to practice its theology though. Without freedom of religion there is no freedom at all.
Information, information, information is the key to the control of religions. To exact a strict majority rule type of governmental control on religion is to risk another kind of tyranny upon people, a dictatorial government. People should be free to believe and worship as they please. When a particular religious practice is found or thought to be illegal, then the courts convene to decide the matter in accord with the Constitution.
If the religious practice is found to be legal under the Constitution it is then an allowed practice. The JW blood doctrine has not been declared unconstitutional in our country. I firmly believe it never will be. Majority rule must always allow the minorities their voice and place in society, otherwise true freedom dies.
Information is the key to keeping religion in its proper place.
IW
-
expatbrit
Hello Nic:
Interesting thread. Please could you keep an eye on this and let us know out here in the colonies if and when it becomes law. It will certainly be worth a read of the legislation if it is passed.
Also, I'm about to email you something regarding Friern Barnet. If you could peruse it and get back to me it would be much appreciated.
And finally, how is the Do-Not-Call thing going? Any developments? Anyone using the letters etc?
Expatbrit
-
expatbrit
Um...actually I would email you, but I've lost the addy....
Please could you PM it to me? Thanks!
Expatbrit
-
No Apologies
IW,
we view the Watchtower only as a corporate entity, forgetting it is very much a religious entity as well and will under the law defend itself both on religious and corporate grounds.
Can you please give any evidence that the Watchtower Society is a religious entity? Any at all?
-
IslandWoman
No Apologies,
Can you please give any evidence that the Watchtower Society is a religious entity? Any at all?
Your question proves in and of itself that many of the xJW lead posters have done a good job of hood winking the xJW community into thinking the JWs are not a religion but only an organization, this is false. Yes, the JWs are a religion. They are a religion in every sense of the word.
They follow the Bible, the so called word of God that many other Christian religions also follow. They pray to God in the name of his Son as many other Christian religions also do. They gather together to learn about the Bible and to encourage one another, as many other Christians do. They preach the Gospel as many other Christian Churches do. They also, as many others do, follow the lead of their religious leaders.
They are as much a religion as the Catholics, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists and all the other Christian religions.
If you have a point to make, please make it.
IW