Firstborn of all Creation - What does it refer too?

JW Answers

The Jehovah's Witnesses believe the title given to the Lord Jesus as 'Firstborn' is in reference to Himself being created. However as we study the scriptures we can see that it has a greater meaning than being created.

cofty

Yeah we know — prototokos.

You do know you are talking to EX-JW experts in the bible and Watchtower theology don't you?

Last year you said — I am not here to "plug" my videos and run lol. I have interacted in this forum before, and do not have a problem interacting with others and discussing the scriptures... I will try and comment after the New Year on this website to keep active. It is good to discuss the scriptures, and I for one am not shy in doing so, therefore my reason to apologise publically. (sic)

Despite requests in recent weeks for actual conversation it turns out you are nothing but a hit-and-run apologist.

JW Answers

This video is in reference to the title "Firstborn of all creation". The Jehovah's Witnesses use this term to indicate that the Lord Jesus Christ is the First Created. However the bible explains throughout that the Lord Jesus is from everlasting, therefore what does the term "Firstborn" actually mean in refernece to the Lord Jesus Christ?

Within the video, it is discussed from Genesis 41 + 48, concerning Ephraim and Manasseh who were Joseph's sons. Manasseh was the firstborn into the family, however as Joseph took them both to see his father, Israel (Jacob), he blessed Ephraim and made him the firstborn, allowing Ephraim to have the supermacy over Manasseh.

Throughout the bible, there are others who were made "Firstborn". David for example was made Firstborn over all the kings of the earth, yet David had 7 younger brothers.

When looking at the scriptures concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, it is evident that the Lord Jesus is given the title "Firstborn" which is supremacy over ALL creation, He is the Head of the Church, and all things consist by Him and for Him.

Phil 2:9-11 explain that in a future day to come, EVERY knee will bow down to the Lord Jesus Christ, worshipping Him. Are we to say that we will one day worship someone who is a created being? Or worship the One who is God? (Not the Father, but equal too).

I explain within this video by rightly dividing the word of Truth, what it means for the Lord Jesus to be called Firstborn.

Thank you.

JW Answers

Cofty.. do you live on this website? It seems that the very moment I post, you JUMP and comment... don't you have a life outside this forum?

This video is a help to those who are still studying, and such comments that you have made should not interfere with the ministry this website is based upon. Otherwise, what is the point in showing others who come onto the website the truth? If the people who live on here, get annoyed at people trying to help others.

Take a break, go outside, breathe fresh air.

God bless.

cofty

So your not going to keep your promise to engage in actual dialogue then.

Just for your info I have a really busy life. But it's late evening here in Northumberland and by the sound of your accent it's pretty late in weegieland too. I'm watching TV and working on a project on my laptop with this forum open in another tab.

This video is a help to those who are still studying

The way to help those who are studying with JWs is NOT to debate the minutiae of esoteric NT theology. Ex_Jws are in the best position to help potential JWs, not those who just want to replace one cult with the cult of fundamentalist evangelical christianity.

JW Answers

"Weegieland" - I don't come from there...

Sorry, I assumed I was speaking to a Christian... from your attitude, I can see there are no fruits of the spirit there. I take it your an ex-JW who had turned athiest? I can't see Christ in your comments :-( what a terrible testimony.

And for your information... I came from a family of Jehovah's Witnesses, where my mother, father, uncles, aunties, grandfathers etc etc all got saved after coming out of the cult. I also still have family members who are still Jehovah's Witnesses, and I know how to speak to them.

Lastly, who says I don't comment on this forum? Could it be, that I could have possible another account, and just don't use the Pseudo name of "JW Answers" to answer questions asked?

Something to think about....

cofty

Your talking to somebody who was a born-again, saved evangelical christian for 9 years after leaving the Watchtower. Eventually I exchanged faith-based thinking for an evidence-based worldview. In retrospect I see your literal interpretation of the bible as just another cult.

Phrases like 'I can see there are no fruits of the spirit there' and 'what a terrible testimony' just make you look silly.

Could it be, that I could have possible another account, and just don't use the Pseudo name of "JW Answers" to answer questions asked?

Having 2 accounts simultaneously is against forum rules. It can easily be checked by comparing ISP addresses.

People whose lives have been affected by the WT cult need to be encouraged to focus on building a new life. Finding friends, education, careers, family and recreation. They do not need you to try to entice them into a new cult.

JW Answers

I've sent you a PM.

cofty

Thank you. I have replied.

JW Answers

Publically : I am apologising for any rude comments made above.

Going forward, to answer the subject post. The bible teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ is the first born, showing preeminence over all creation. This has nothing to do with being first created.

Micah 5:2 explains...

"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

The prophecy indicates that the Lord Jesus is from everlasting, and not a created being.

The bible further explains in Phil 2:9 that the Lord Jesus will be honored and worshipping in a day to come, where EVERY knee will bow down to him. If the Lord Jesus is a created being, then this shows that we will bow down to creation, rather than God, and would invoke idol worship.

This is not the case, as we see from scripture that the Lord Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh.

1 Tim 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Firstborn of all Creation - What does it refer too?

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