Another US Death, Why Dont They Leave?

by ISP 25 Replies latest social current

• 

  Simon

  I disagree, we live in much more media sensitive / fickle times and casualties are seen as unacceptable.

  The death toll (US only) is now 200:

  http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CB10

  There has to be a limit politically to how many troops can be sent home in body bags before something gives. Support for policy is not a bottomless pit, however much enthusiasm there is for it initially.

  Let's hope it doesn't come to that though.
• 

  teejay

  Bush's popularity is attributable to one thing and one thing only: his stance on terrorism following 9/11 and his John Wayne impersonation since. Prior to that, he was not a popular president here or abroad and what approval he did have was quite shaky. But I digress.

  Rather than withdrawal, the talk I've heard is of escalation – of sending MORE troops over in order to better "secure" the situation. For his political life, there is no other alternative. Already hoping to avoid any focus on the lagging U.S. economy, Bush would be exposed as a complete failure if he turned tail and ran from his bold promises vis-à-vis Iraq. I can't see him doing that. If he has any hope of being elected to a second term, he has to maintain his tough-guy image – thereby continuing to fool the mostly clueless American electorate.
• 

  ISP

  In my opinion, the US and British have done their job. They should leave and involve other agencies like the UN. Yes there are problems in the country but I dont think a US/GB presence is essential to sort it out.The coalition military forces did a great job in the actual war, whatever your political view. The soldiers deserve to be out of there. I would feel very sorry for the families of these ones who would have expected to have them home by now.

  ISP
• 

  ISP

  Ah, ISP, not another one of these threads! Please, the majority of us are sick of them! Best wishes, Dansk

  Dansk. I dont think this subject has been raised recently. The ongoing death toll in Iraq for both US and UK soldiers is a disturbing matter IMO. Of course, if you dont like the thread topic, you know what you can do! Best wishes.

  Yeah, I'm sure the US and UK leaving right now will promote peace in Iraq. All we need is another fundamentalist regime taking over in the region. rem

  Rem, the US and UK troops have done their job. I would do them a favour and get them out. And install UN supervision etc. As far as a new regime is concerned, I think thats for the Iraqi people.

  there is no good way to get out of this mess but the US leaving now would perhaps be the worst option for the region. Realist

  Realist, you need to get the UN in. The worse option is to leave our troops in to be sitting ducks. It will only lead to paranoia and an escalation in deaths. The UN would be quite good at providing the humanitarian support that is needed here. The troops are not going to be if they are looking over their backs all the time.

  I NEVER click on these threads usually! However, this one was started by my mate, He likes to wind people up and most fall for it. Thought I'd just nip in and wind him up for a change! That said, I still think the war threads are useless. If someone wants to have a go at the American government what on earth do you think a bunch of xjws from this list can achieve? All such posts do is aggravate some of our American friends here. What's good about that? Didn't Simon say he wasn't going to allow such threads again, or am I mistaken

  Dansk, you've got it wrong. Its not an attempt to wind anyone up. Its a US and UK problem. The latest death was a US one but the UK have lost troops recently but they should leave. Its not a war thread and I dont see it offending anybody!

  Best. ISP
• 

  ISP

  06-23) 12:41 PDT BALAD, Iraq (AP) -- On a scorching afternoon, while on duty at an Army airfield, Sgt. David J. Borell was approached by an Iraqi who pleaded for help for his three children, burned when they set fire to a bag containing explosive powder left over from war in Iraq. Borell immediately called for assistance. But the two Army doctors who arrived about an hour later refused to help the children because their injuries were not life-threatening and had not been inflicted by U.S. troops. Now the two girls and a boy are covered with scabs and the boy cannot use his right leg. And Borell is shattered. "I have never seen in almost 14 years of Army experience anything that callous," said Borell, who recounted the June 13 incident to The Associated Press. A U.S. military spokesman said the children's condition did not fall into a category that requires Army physicians to treat them -- and that there was no inappropriate response on the part of the doctors. The incident comes at a time when U.S. troops are trying to win the confidence of Iraqis, an undertaking that has been overwhelmed by the need to protect themselves against attacks. Boosting security has led to suspicion in encounters between Iraqis and Americans. There are increased pat-downs, raids on homes and arrests in which U.S. troops force people to the ground at gunpoint -- measures the Iraqis believe are meant to humiliate them. In addition, Iraqis maintain the Americans have not lived up to their promises to improve security and living conditions, and incidents like the turning away of the children only reinforce the belief that Americans are in Iraq only for their own interests. For Borell, who has been in Iraq since April 17, what happened with the injured children has made him question what it means to be an American soldier. "What would it have cost us to treat these children? A few dollars perhaps. Some investment of time and resources," said Borell, 30, of Toledo, Ohio. "I cannot imagine the heartlessness required to look into the eyes of a child in horrid pain and suffering and, with medical resources only a brief trip up the road, ignore their plight as though they are insignificant," he added. Maj. David Accetta, public affairs officer with the 3rd Corps Support Command, said the children's condition did not fall into a category that requires Army doctors to care for them. Only patients with conditions threatening life, limb or eyesight and not resulting from a chronic illness are considered for treatment. "Our goal is for the Iraqis to use their own existing infrastructure and become self-sufficient, not dependent on U.S. forces for medical care," Accetta said in an e-mail to AP. The incident came to light after an AP photographer took a picture of Borell being comforted by a colleague after the doctors refused to care for the children. When Borell's wife, Rachelle Douglas-Borell, saw the photo, she contacted AP with a copy of a letter he sent her describing what happened. When Borell talks about the children, he pauses between sentences, keeps his head down, clears his throat. Seated on a cot in a bare room at an Army air base in Balad, 55 miles northwest of Baghdad, Borell said when he saw the three children, especially the girls, Ahlam, 11, and Budur, 10, he visualized his daughters, Ashley, 8, and Brianna, 5. Borell, who spoke to the family through an Iraqi bystander with some English, did not understand exactly what happened to the children. But the children's father, Falah Mutlaq, told AP they set fire to a bag of explosives they found on a street in their village, Bihishmeh, a few miles from the base. Mutlaq, 36, who has 14 children from two wives, said he took the children to a hospital in Balad, but they were turned away because the facility could not treat them. He then took them to the base. Borell's eyes cloud with pain when he describes the children. Madeeha Mutlaq was holding her son, Haidar, 10, fanning him with a piece of cardboard. His legs, arms and half of his face were singed. Ahlam, Haidar's full sister, and Budur, his half-sister, had fewer but still extensive burns. What struck Borell was the children's silence. "They did not utter a single sound," he said. Borell radioed his superiors, who contacted the base hospital. Two Army doctors, both of them majors, responded. One of them, according to Borell, "looked at (Haidar) ... didn't examine him, didn't ask him questions." "(He) never looked at the girls," said Borell. "Through the interpreter, one of the doctors told the father that we didn't have any medicine here ... and were not able to provide them care," said Borell. "And he also expounded on the fact that they needed long-term care." Borell said the combat hospital was fully stocked. "Right before they left, I looked at the one doctor, asked him if he could at least give them comfort care," said Borell. "He told me they were not here to be the treatment center for Iraq." "He didn't show any compassion," the sergeant added. Borell grabbed his first-aid kit and gave the father some bandages and IV solution to clean the wounds. Mutlaq, who grows oranges and apples with water he gets from the Tigris River, laughed when he recalled the doctor's words. "He lied," Mutlaq said. "The world's greatest power going to war without burn medicine? Who can believe that?" Mutlaq took the children the next day to Baghdad for treatment. Budur, a chubby, giggly child with light brown eyes, seems to have recovered except for a large scab on her right arm. Ahlam and Haidar are covered with yellowish scabs scattered over raw red flesh. Haidar keeps his left fingers bent and hops on his left leg because it's too painful to use the right one. A smile rarely leaves his face despite the discomfort. Mutlaq said he often hears the children whimper at night from the pain. Despite their suffering, Mutlaq said he feels no bitterness. "How can I not love the Americans? They helped me with a flat tire the other day," he said. Borell said he felt betrayed by the Army, which he joined after high school. Besides the letter to his wife, he also wrote to his congresswoman and several media outlets describing the incident. His superiors have not said a word, said Borell, "although I get the impression that they're probably not very happy." Borell's wife gave him a silver bracelet that says: "Duty, Honor, Country." He wears it to remind him why he's in Iraq. "After today, I wonder if I will still be able to carry the title 'soldier' with any pride at all," said Borell. · Printer-friendly version · Email this article to a friend SALES Career Opportunity in San Francisco/ RETAIL SALES PROFESSIONAL TIFFANY & CO. LOANS VLO'S WANTED!! 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• 

  ISP

  The point of the above was not to be anti-american! There is someone trying to be 'american' IMO! But it highlights why I think you need to get the UN involved.

  ISP
• 

  Yerusalyim

  I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all until you brought up the UN. No more useless organization has ever existed. The UN has the reverse Midas touch, everything it gets involved in turns to SH*T. We're in Iraq for the long haul, anyone who thought different was being delusional. I think the Allies need a more aggressive policy there to hunt down Saddam. The current agenda there seems ill planned. Remember how long we were in Germany and Japan after the war...and also recall it was at least 6 months after the war before they knew Hitler was dead. When we get Saddam much of the aggression against the US will end too, though not all.
• 

  ISP

  Yeru, the colaition should get the weapons inspectors back and involve the UN/NGO's who can sort out the Iraqi infrastructure. If the coalition are in for the long haul, they will always be subject to animosity by even opposers of saddam. what do you do then? You can increase the appeal of saddam and his followers.

  ISP
• 

  foreword

  Why can't the coalition admit to the fact that they know they won't succeed there. It has nothing to do with Saddam being alive or not (that's just another excuse in the long line of excuses the coalition has used for their unsuccesses), it has all to do with people not wanting capitalists to control their resources.

  Interesting to see how the story (and reasons) changes continuously.

  I think that ridding yourself of Saddam will have the adverse effect. You will see more people pissed off than you could ever imagine.

  The UN doesn't have the Midas touch, hey, I'll agree to that....my question is...how much do you have it?

  I'm not trying to be anti-whatever, I'm just looking at the facts, and I don't see anything good coming out of this.

  I just don't see the Iraqis wanting you to help. Actually, from what I have read, they would hope that the coalition would step aside so they can go on with their lives.

  Maybe the coalition should read what the arabs think of the situation.

  http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=28127&d=29&m=6&y=2003
• 

  teejay

  A few days ago, Paul Bremer, US civil administrator in Iraq, protested
  vigorously about Iran’s alleged involvement in anti-occupation activities in Iraq. He warned Iran “not to interfere in Iraq’s internal affairs.” This, coming from a man whose country, the United States, has just overrun and conquered Iraq and has more than100,000 troops stationed there.

  Truly that is the pot calling the kettle black.

  The brazenness of the man is breathtaking. But it has become a normal state of affairs for US officials to behave with such arrogance and to call things by different names in order to make the unacceptable acceptable and the contemptible noble.

  The Americans, and their lapdogs of assorted nationalities, are merely experiencing the normal resistance of a conquered people to the power occupying their country in order to regain their freedom. Freedom is a quality much prized by the Americans, but apparently not to be enjoyed by others. -- Amr Mohammed Al-Faisal

  Thanks for the link, Foreward.

  p.s. Mr. Al-Faisal, with a single word, put his finger on why the coalition troops will be staying put for the foreseeable future regardless of how many of said troops die needlessly: arrogance.