JGnat's comments on WT May 15, 2003 Christ Speaks to the Congregations

by jgnat 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • 95stormfront
    95stormfront
    And now, in one resounding, unified accord we get the real message of the WTS from the mouth of babes:

    “HATE!”

    My heart sank.

    I see.....

    With me never going to those stupid meetings anymore I see now why after my wife coming home from her Sunday meeting after listening to this nonsense that she was on the "we're so different.......we have nothing in common.......we're growing apart" mantra. This was again one of her typical attempts to induce a little guilt in me for not going to meetings anymore.

  • l3gi0n
    l3gi0n

    Can someone post the study article?

  • concerned mama
    concerned mama

    I find that encouragement of hatred so terribly creepy and scary.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    benext -

    It seems incredible that the statement that someone with apostate leanings could corrupt the entire congregation could be made.

    I wish apostate leaners had that kind of power! I think this is just an excuse to hustle “weak ones” out the door as quickly possible. Perhaps the WTS will start undertaking a “mad cow” disease kind of cure, and wipe out entire herds of sheep “just in case”. Wouldn’t want the congregation infected with the common cold, now, would we?

    winston - eloquent words, indeed. Correct me if I am wrong, wouldn’t each study leader take their own slant? For instance, would a milder elder perhaps concentrate on the “end times” part of the message, another on “purity”. I would hate to think of JW kids everywhere are chanting "HATE HATE HATE the World" on the way to playschool.

    95stormfront - I feel for ya, man, and I have been feeling it too. Is there something going on in the last couple of meetings, that are setting JW spouses on edge?

    l3gi0n-I have decided against posting whole articles, preferring to remain in the spirit of the copyright law. You may want to correspond with dmouse privately, to see if he has any ideas as to where you might come up with current materials online.

    concerned mama - horrible feeling, isn’t it, to be on the receiving end of this kind of bigotry? It gives me a whole new appreciation for what minorities have endured in generations past.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    benext wrote:

    It seems incredible that the statement that someone with apostate leanings could corrupt the entire congregation

    That idea has intrigued me of late; one apostate can undo the learning of an entire congregation. Do they even think about the stupidity of this idea, that a false, corrupt idea could take out an entire congregation? How can they not see that it is the TRUTH about a matter that is insidious; just as when Jesus told the truth about the Pharisees, the amharets of the day could see the truth in it immediately, and feel free now that someone said it out loud.

    Same with "apostasy"; when someone stands up and says, hey, the child sexual abuse issue is not just satan manipulating the media, people recognize the reasonableness of it, especially if they have done their homework.

    THAT is what is dangerous; the truth is dangerous. Falsehood can be exposed in a minute, especially these days. Falsehood does not stand a chance; we live in a time when a third grader with an internet connection can find out that WT history is not what they say it is. That is why they warn so strongly not to listen, else "an entire congregation" be infected with the truth!

  • cyberguy
    cyberguy

    Hey winston!

    I’ve been enjoying your commentaries on various threads on this board. I still attend some meetings, but I’m trying to do the slow-fade-thing. In protest to this particular Watchtower, I didn’t bother going! I probably won’t go next week for the 2 nd part of this article for the same reason. Anyway, I just wanted to share something I found interesting about the reference to 2 Cor. 11:19-20.

    The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries makes some interesting points:

    Vs. 19: Paul here justifies, with no little irony, the appeal to the Corinthians made in verse 16 to allow him to boast as a fool, on the ground that they are people who are wise, some of the so wise that they can tolerate even fools gladly, and therefore, they could not possibly have any objection to what he was doing.

    Vs. 20: But not only do some of the Corinthians gladly put up with the folly that proceeded from the mouths of these bombastic talkers; they are also content to suffer personal indignities at their hands such as their own apostle could never dream of inflicting upon them. Paul’s opponents were not only braggers, buy tyrants, determined to enslave their victims. The verb translated bring into bondage, katadoulo, is used in Gal. Ii, 4 (and nowhere else in the New Testament) of the Judaizers who were trying to enslave the Galatians by making them keeep the Jewish law in its entirety; and it may be that it has the same implication here. Many commentators, however, consider that the verb, though active in form, has in effect a middle sense. These tyrants are endeavoring to enslave the Corinthians to themselves, so that in all things they may be the servants of their will.

    In their greed they use every available means of extracting money from those who come under their power. They devour (RSV ‘preys upon’) them, the same verb katesthio being used here as in our Lord’s denunciation of the Pharisees because they ‘devoured windows’ houses’ (see Lk. Xx. 47).

    By inserting the words of you after take AV gives the verb lambano the sense, which it is capable of bearing, of ‘get something out of you’; but this is a weaker charge to bring against the tyrants than that set forth in the previous verb devour. The RV and RSV renderings ‘taketh you captive’ and ‘takes advantage of you’ are, therefore, preferable. The verb seems to suggest here, as Plummer points out, that these unscrupulous rogues are trying to ‘catch’ the Corinthians ‘as birds in a snare, or fishes with bait’ (cf. The use of the same ver in Lk. V. 5).

    By exalt himself (RSV ‘puts on airs’) something more is implied than the ‘boasting’ to which reference has already been made. The meaning of the verb here used epairetai is brought out better by Plummer in his translation ‘lords it over you.’

    To smite on the face or mouth is a mark of the greatest disrespect. It was an indignity suffered literally by Micaiah at the hands of the false prophet Zedekiah (1 Ki. Xxii, 24), by Jesus at the hands of those who arrested Him (Lk. Xxii. 64, AV), and by Paul at the instigation of the high priest Ananias (Acts xxiii. 2). Some commentators take the expression here also in the literal sense, and infer that physical violence was used on the Corinthians; others, with perhaps greater probability, follow Chrysostom in regarding it as symbolic of any kind of humiliating treatment.

    Judging from this commentary, may I suggest that Paul was actually being a bit sarcastic rather than encouraging them to "put up" with such men.

    Something else to think about; when we look at the relationship between the WT Society with its the GB and the flock, are they not more like these "superfine apostles" Paul is talking about, bringing great harm to the flock by their lording-over the sheep? Doesn’t the GB claim to have a sort of apostle-like appointment, a special relationship with Christ, that only they enjoy? In your experience, doesn’t it seem to you that we’ve been caught like "birds in a snare, or fishes with bait?" In addition to money, have theses very ones not only demanded out precious time (i.e., their matra is "more is never enough, do more, more, more!")? Finally, don’t you agree that "these tyrants are endeavoring to enslave" us "to themselves, so that in all things" we "may be the servants of their will?"

  • berylblue
    berylblue
    And now, in one resounding, unified accord we get the real message of the WTS from the mouth of babes:

    “HATE!”

    Jehovah's Witnesses truly are the most loving people on earth.

    Rosemarie

  • kilroy2
    kilroy2

    I dont think that we should propetuate calling ourselves apostates even in joke. It only reinforceses the dumb and dubbers thinking. I have become an agnostic after leaving the org. and I feel that it is the only true way to look at things, as ag's say that they just don't know. and realy none of us know how we got here, why we are here, we can have a feeling but that is just what it is a feeling. the dubbers are only concerned about one thing. not our everlasting life, not the health of the congergation. it is the same old story that man has been concerned about for centurys, control over fellow man. goverments , religon, cults. they all want control over others. and in this cult all you have to do is say not today. we are all stocked up on crazy here today. sell it some where else. We are not apostates, and I doubt if their are any such thing. and there are certainly none here. At brooklyn there are a lot of control freeks. and that is the danger. How long before some old fart like henchel dies [ I know he is dead] and a jim jones takes over and starts handing out the koolaid? and the blind that follow drink it down.

  • avengers
    avengers

    You guys are good. Keep up the good work. Expose this deceit.

    such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ . 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light . “

    The WT applies this scripture to people like me, the so-called apostate father who is bad company. Again in fact I say: "It wasn't me that committed adultery. It was the WT!! They slept with the Wild Beast. They protect the perpetrator and not the children. They are the ones that have secret deals!!
    NOT ME!!... Yet they apply the scripture to me. I never say I'm an apostle. I don't say I have the light. How can I be a false apostle if I'm not even an apostle.?"

    Isn't the Watchtower the one that is saying: "We have the only Truth. We are Christ's Apostles."? Isn't the Watchtower the one that is saying that her light keeps getting clearer. The Watchtower is the Angel of Light who says: "Come to me. We have the only Truth. My light keeps getting clearer.

    Personally I think the above scripture applies more to the WT than it does to me and others. What is so deceitful is that the "top" knows they're splitting up families this way.

    The WT is the one that is always pointing the finger towards someone to keep the attention off of herself. How long are they gonna be able to keep up the charade?

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    The WTS has been cast into "spiritual darkness" by Jehovah and this is just more evidence of this.

    That's because, though Israel did disobey and had to fulfill the punishment, Jehovah said he would redeem 1/3 of them in the end and they would be like a "log snatched out of the fire". Two thirds would pass into the fire though. Thus the two-thirds of the nation that was lost during the "great tribulation" was fulfilled at the time of the Holocaust when two-thirds of the Jewish nation settled in primarily Eastern Europe were killed. But after that, they would be redeemed and restored to their homeland and their exile would end. Sure enough, that was fulfilled also in 1947 when the Jews were restored to Palestine.

    The scripture about the two-thirds during the Holocaust is below, but note that the prophetic Jubilee was for the Jews in the modern era. The Jubilee was a time for returning to the homeland and for coming out of exile. The "70 weeks" represents 10 jubilees. We can fix the 70 weeks via 36CE which ended the 70th week, since the 70th week began when Christ got baptized. The jubilees are the 50th week following 49 weeks but also the first year of the next 49 years.

    Thus, note that the FIFTIETH jubilee from 455BCE, the beginning of the first 70 weeks, falls in 1947!!! This is hardly an accident.

    Just for the math, you have 10 jubilees for every 490 years. 10 jubilees ended in 36CE. Another four 490-year periods would give you 50 jubilees. 4x490 is 1960. Add 19690 to 36CE and you get the last 490 years ending in 1996. The jubilee would be the first of the last 49 years and thus subtract 49 from 1996 and you get 1947. That would be the most significant jubilee of all since it would signal God's forgiveness of the Jews after the Holocaust which is the prophesied "great tribulation", something else the WTS do not understand.

    Here's the prophesy that the Holocaust would wipe out two-thirds of the Jews and the third remaining would be restored:

    Zech. 13:8 "And it must occur in all the land," is the utterance of YHWH, "that two parts in it are what will be cut off and expire, and as for the third part, it will be left remaining in it. 9 And I shall certainly bring the third part through the fire, and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver, and examine them as in the examining of gold. It, for its part, will call upon my name, and I for my part, will answer it. I will say, "It is my people, and it, in its turn, will say, "YHWH is my God."

    Now when did "spiritual Israel" lose two-thirds of it's members? And why would God destroy two-thirds of spiritual Israel? It makes no sense.

    God forgave the nation of Israel after the Holocaust and they were restored to Israel and actually were to be blessed by God. Look at the State of Israel now?

    But...also, yes it is true there would also be a "spiritual Israel" and they're public appearance is via the faithful anointed ones with Jehovah's witness. But like the Jews, the leaders would also prove unfaithful and be cast out. In the case of spiritual Israel though, while Christ does abandon the religion as a whole, he does go in and separate the "wheat from the weeds" and the "sheep from the goats" and he joins this "little flock" with "other sheep" he has not of this fold; and obviously, a bigger fold.

    By the way, as a final note, the "covenant" with the Jews and Christian spiritual Israel, Jehovah's witnesses, would only last through the final 70th week. So after 1996, neither Jews nor Jehovah's witnesses have any special covenant with YHWH as a group.

    Sorry for being so wordy, but I hate it when the WTS contradicts the scriptures.

    Canon

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