When does the paradise earth become more important than family ? and why ?

by run dont walk 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  run dont walk

  I have read some sickening threads the last coupleof days, about family shunning and how disfellowshipped are treated, and even how I am treated by my family. (Lyineyes, Stephaniesays, and Phil and many many more)

  it does not matter what you do, your family is never happy, I'm sure many people still inside the borg would say the same.

  Is living in a paradise earth that important ??? and Why ??? ( and I do not what to hear, I'm doing what's best for my children, because half the time the kids leave anyways, so what was the point.)

  Aren't people in a sort of paradise (I know the world has it problems big time), with family, kids grand kids and enjoying everyday life.

  To all the women out there who have given birth (and men that helped), do you remember giving birth and holding your child for the first time ??? what an experience that must be !!!

  Yet, JW's forget all this, and if you don't believe anymore you are garbage and not good enough to talk to. Regardless of the bloodlines !!! How do they sleep at night ???

  Is living in a paradise earth that important ??? and Why ???

  So, lets say someone joins the JW's today, how long until they start shunning and/or treating their family (non-believer's) differently ??? In Phil's case seems it was almost immediately.

  And when does a JW decide (for himself I would presume) that serving Jehovah and living in a paradise are the most important things in the world, even more then flesh and blood ???

  Let's face it, how many JW's would stay if the Watchtower came out and said, "there is no paradise , we are not sure how Jehovah is going to do Armaggeddon, but you should continue serving the organization with your whole heart and you will receive the benfits from Jehovah."

  And to any JW's reading(lurking) this thread, don't be shy, answer me this, Why do you really go to meetings and serve Jehovah, is it because you think you will reach the carrot the Watchtower dangles in front of you ???

  Is living in a paradise earth that important ??? and Why ???

  What else can be said ........ is it brainwashing, a cult, bunch of controlling people, I guess it is all and many more.

  Sorry I am rambling abit, I am just sickened by some of these stories.

  So sad, luckily we have this board to remind us all why we left. And for some REAL support.

  luv ya all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  OrbitingTheSun

  When I was studying to become a JW there was a passage in the Bible that a pioneer sister showed me about Paradise. I don't remember it now but it was the one in the front of the NWT Bible and it basically said "Don't worry about the people you love; if they don't go to Paradise you will forget them completely. " How comforting. I was only 15-16 at the time, and I was supposed to be grateful for God's gift of Oblivion and not care that my entire worldly family would be erased from Jehovah's memory if I couldn't convert them.
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  AlanF

  Very good questions, run don't walk!

  I'm completely convinced that far less than 50% of JWs would remain if the "Paradise" teaching were taken away. Their religion makes a big deal about "serving Jehovah" out of love for him, but the daily lives of the majority of JWs, and how they react when their beliefs are stressed, convinces me that most of them are in it for the reward.

  I think that it's rather early in the conversion process that a person buys in to the "Paradise Earth" hope, and along with a few other things like the resurrection, these become the carrots that the person focuses on thereafter. In fact, it's these early carrots that allow the person to accept the especially illogical and stupid JW teachings that come along later, such as 1914, and most important, The Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses. When these carrots are accepted early on, the person begins withdrawing from family and friends. This is usually long before the person is baptized. So it appears that "Phil" accepted these teachings very early.

  While the JW religion is supposed to be about unselfish love for God, a convert is quickly confronted with the various rewards, and so he or she mentally cannot distinguish "loving God" from the rewards God will give only if the person "serves" him. Because they focus on the rewards, in practice the members of the JW religion are extremely selfish. That partly explains the hatred they quickly develop for their friends and relatives who don't convert along with them -- they hate them because they know they'll "soon" lose them, and such hatred eases the pain of loss. The other part of the typical hatred comes from knowing that their religion really has little logical foundation. They don't know this on a conscious level, but deep down they do. They know that they've accepted the religion based on selfish rewards, and so have accepted illogical and even ridiculous teachings in order to get that reward. So their subconscious develops hatred towards any who remind them of this illogical conversion process, especially towards family and friends.

  Focusing on the reward tends to make family life unhappy for JWs because they're so focused on the one thing, to the exclusion of normal family life. Every good thing normal families enjoy regularly is either done infrequently, or not at all -- such pleasure being postponed until "The New Order". It's inevitable that people come to resent always having to put off even the little pleasures of life. I sure did when I was growing up a s a JW. But JWs always keep that "Paradise" in mind, and that keeps them going.

  AlanF
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  Lady Lee

  I have to agree that the reward is there and is a focus but I don't think it is the primary focus.

  FEAR. I believe it is more about fear. Fear of

  • losing all social contacts (if all your family is in they you have no one if you leave)
  • losing your belief system (religion)
  • losing God
  • losing the belief you gave up everything to follow this
  • being shunned or DFed yourself
  • Satan and the world
  • displeasing God (for some at least)
  • the elders who might call you in for one of their little meetings

  The JW life is more fear based than hope based. The hope is the carrot dangled before them but it is fear that controls them and causes them to act without love
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  run dont walk
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  what-now?

  Good question! I was disfellowshipped 2 years ago and my family (all devout JW's 2nd & 3 generation) does not speak to me. This bothers me, but I understand because I was like them at one time (under the mesmorizing influence of the 'club'). What really bothers me is the way they treat my innocent children (girl 11, boy 16). My mom (the dominent one in the family) hardly ever calls them or invites them over.

  My sister who lives about 400 miles away, is inactive, but her young daughter (about 8 or 9) 'loves the truth' (or so it's reported to us by my mom). She hitches a ride to the meetings with a neighbor. You can imagine how much my mom dotes on THIS grandchild. My parents travel quite frequently to visit her and I 'd imagine that the biggest reason is that they have the religion in common.

  My mother was very controlling when I was growing up (in the truth). I married young (18 yrs old) like most JW's, to get away from her influence. But I still strived to meet her approval by going to meetings (at the same KH) and doing what was 'right'. Her 'love' toward me was VERY conditional. If I was a good girl and stayed in good standing with the religion, she accepted me.

  It's happening all over again with MY kids. Her love is still conditional. I honestly feel she has no (or very little) love for me or my children because we don't abide by the same religious standards she does. It's not fair to any of us! But I can't control her. It's taken me these past 3 years to begin to understand how I was raised and what kind of a heavy toll it's been on me. At least I'm doing things differently with my kids. They know that I love them NO MATTER WHAT. And I will always love them and help them out to the fullest extent of my ability.

  Life is hard enough. We should be able to lean on our family for help. This silly, juvenile 'not speaking' to someone just because they don't have the same beliefs is for the birds! Trade in your family for a paradise if you want to...I'd just like to get through each day with my loved ones, and comfort myself in a God of love who can read hearts and knows I do what I can (as a single parent). To me the ones acting as true christians [in the world] are helping each other EVERY day (not just preaching AT people on Saturday morning) in MANY ways.

  One last point...Just who the heck, by the 'witnesses standards', will even be in the paradise? Don't we all fall short of the glory of God? Didn't Jesus come to earth to exempt our sins? Didn't God accept his sacrafice to cover our sins? Isn't HE the judge? Then why are the Witnesses so judgemental/holier-than-thou?

  Boy, you hit a nerve with this thread!
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  Nosferatu

  I agree with Lady Lee that the religion is very much based on fear. You fear pissing off God, and if you do, you have the fear of not making it through Armaggeddon and being destroyed with all the people that Satan the Devil has influenced. Speaking of Satan, you better fear falling into his clutches. Talking with Satanic people will hurt your spirituality. Also, you must fear movies and music, because some of these send messages to condure up demons.

  It's all about fear, not hope. Hope is the bait that they use to inflict the fear into people.

  Here's a sad story. My mother cleans an elderly JW's house. She is afraid that her stereo has been posessed because it makes a horrible noise when she touches the volume control.
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  garybuss

  Alan wrote:

  So their subconscious develops hatred towards any who remind them of this illogical conversion process, especially towards family and friends.

  Great post Alan! A keeper! Gary
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  Jourles

  Let's face it, how many JW's would stay if the Watchtower came out and said, "there is no paradise , we are not sure how Jehovah is going to do Armaggeddon, but you should continue serving the organization with your whole heart and you will receive the benfits from Jehovah."

  I have always thought about if there was no paradise that the WTS portrays. There is one huge factor that most witnesses totally forget about when they conjure up images of themselves living in a paradise earth. But let's veer off for a second... What is the absolute number one priority for all witnesses to fulfill? Almost all witnesses will say, "To preach the word and to make Jehovah's name known." But there is one more issue that they usually forget about which is the issue of Jehovah's Universal Sovereignty. Can they be faithful like Job and go through hell in a handbasket without breaking if they knew that the paradise wasn't the prize for integrity? Take away the paradise 'carrot' and how many witnesses will still uphold their corporate objective? It is the "what's in it for me" syndrome. All witnesses have it. "Screw Jehovah's sovereignty if I can't get into paradise."

  Take away the paradise? Consider suicide rates going up through the roof in WTdom.
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  cruzanheart

  When I realized that family was more important than the ephemeral hope of living forever on the same earth as a bunch of rigid anal retentive humorless elders, I left.

  Nina