Are observers allowed on Judicial Committee ? (WT Letter)

by caspian 25 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  caspian

  According to the Pay Attention Book No Observers are allowed.

  How ever please note what a paragraph from the following letter says.
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  To all Circuit and District Overseers May 6 2002 Page 3 Para 2.

  Assisting Elders with Judicial Matters.While it is best for a travelling overseer not to serve on Judicial Committees, he can assist by being an advisor when needed. In that event, during the hearing of a case where a travelling overseer sits in as an observer, he can note how the judicial committee conducts the proceedings, having in mind what is stated on pages 110-6 of the Pay attention (ks91) book. Thereafter, when the judicial committee meets for consultation among themselves, a travelling overseer may be asked for assistance on some particular point or points. It is important for him to listen carefully and to make sure that he has some reference in print to support any advice or counsel that he may offer. Furthermore, he should not be influenced by personal feelings or opinions on the outcome of the case. For matters pertaining to scriptual freedom to remarry or nonneutral employment, it is best for these questions to be sent to the branch office in writing, unless the matter is clear-cut. If a congregation does not have enough qualified elders to serve on a committee, the circuit overseer can recommend elders from a nearby congregation.

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  Cas
• 

  Francois

  That depends on how determined you are and how much spine you've got. You're not dealing with a legally constituted court of the United States or of any other country. This is merely an eccliastical court of kangaroo characteristics which takes itself way too seriously. If I wanted observers at one of these jokes, there would be observers or there would be no JC.

  And another thing. I would not participate in a JC that was held anywhere but in my own home. I certainly would not participate in one being held in the Lion's Den of the local KH. It would be held in the Lion's Den of my own home or it wouldn't be held.

  These characters essentially are "fools, folly-like, controlling skill" and they could take themselves seriously with someone else. They represent a cult attempting to act like they know what they're doing and pretending to represent God while they're doing it. Screw them and that.

  My home. My observers. At my convenience. You can't be walked on unless you lie down first.
• 

  caspian

  Of course you are right Francois.

  My point in posting this was to make people aware of the double standards in the JC process.

  The Pay attention book is very clear that there can be no observers under any circumstances, however

  this doesn't apply to CO's. as this letter clearly states. I would be interested if any one has had a CO sit in as an observer on their JC.

  Cas
• 

  minimus

  Further point: If YOU said that you wanted to just bring someone along as a "witness", you would not be allowed to do so. YOU have absolutely no rights. You are not given any options. But if the shoe is on the other foot, THEY can do whatever they want!
• 

  rebel

  Is there any way round this? Can anyone think of a legal reason to have a witness with you? Why should it be held in secret? Even 'worldly' courts of law allow you to have witensses, character witnesses etc. Isn't this a breach of an individual's human rights to representation? Please help me out here, as I have a JC next week.

  xxR
• 

  minimus

  You are screwed and that is it! You could refuse to meet with the tribunal and they will just follow ecclesiastical law.
• 

  rebel

  I disagree, Minimus. We are screwed only because that is the way we have been programmed. Why am I screwed? I haven't done anything wrong! Why should the WTS be allowed to set up a kangaroo court to try me when I haven't agreed to it? I haven't DONE ANYTHING! Nobody will listen. What are they going to say about me? What am I supposed to have done?

  I don't go to meetings, I disagree with my husband on many doctrinal issues, I disagree with the WTS on many doctrinal issues. I do not go around telling other people to agree with me. I believe what I believe. They can believe what they believe. What's the problem?

  xxR
• 

  sandy

  Rebel,

  Unless you are trying to keep contact with family/friends I suggest you refuse to meet with the elders.

  If I had it to do over again I would not meet with them.

  If you want to keep family associations just tell the elders you are not rejecting their arrangement but you just cannot deal with them right now due to emotional stress.

  What the hell can they do?

  May we know what the circumstances are regarding your situation?
• 

  rebel

  But they won't let me. I tried to postpone it, but they said, what with Twickenham coming up, they were limited for time. If I don't meet with them, apparently they will DF me, which is unfair.

  Thanks for caring, Sandy, and of course I will keep you up to date with what happens. My JC is 8th July at 7pm.

  xxR
• 

  minimus

  Not only are you screwed, you are not being realistic. Don't you see that ultimately, THEY can do anything THEY want! You, too can decide to ignore them. But if you do, you will be DF'd without being there. That has zero to do with being programmed!