Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen 85 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Anders Andersen

  Do they also have the “moral obligation” to see to it that the police investigate these alleged crimes?

  Finally a remark that makes some sense. Of course it would be strange if RV would demand JW to report abuse, and not do it themselves.

  Now it should be remarked first that RV doesn't simply say that JW elders should report all abuse cases to the police. Instead, RV wants JW elders to encourage victims to go to the police, and actively support them when they report to the police. RV does exactly that themselves: encourage victims to go to the police, and actively support them when they do.

  RV also wants JW to actively encourage victims to seek professional help to cope with their trauma. RV does exactly that themselves: encourage victims to seek professional help, and refer them to a suitable organization or professional.

  RV also wants JW to drop the 2 witness rule when deciding what actions they'll take to support a victim. And of course RV doesn't require a victim to come up with a second witness before they offer support.

  RV wants that JW become more open and transparent wrt abuse. They also want JW to acknowledge and empower abuse victims instead of ignoring them and silencing them. RV does exactly that: speak openly over abuse within the JW community, acknowledge he victims and give them a voice.

  So while your remark would have some merit if RV only demanded JW report all abuses cases to the police, it should be clear that RV tries to do exactly that what they want the JW to do as well.
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  Sanchy

  It's worth noting that RV has said that in cases where minors are still in immediate danger they have and will contact the authorities.
  
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  Anders Andersen

  Clearly they have made a determination to keep matters private if the victim wants it to be kept private and I am no expert in Finnish law but if you say that withholding this information on Watchtower's part is a crime then shouldn't it also be a crime for RV from not going to the police themselves as an organization or individual members in compliance with the law.

  First, we're talking about Dutch law here, not Finnish.

  Dutch law has mandatory reporting only for very severe crimes, such as murder and rape. Unfortunately sexual abuse of minors does not fall in this category (unless the abuse included sexual penetration under threat of violence or blackmail aka rape).

  The law on mandatory reporting may be changed to include child abuse though. This a direct result of JW refusing to cooperate with an inquiry.

  The law on rape was being revised already anyway; any sexual penetration without consent will be classified as rape. Under current law having sex with a sleeping, drunk or unconscious victim who is incapable of (not) consenting is not considered rape. Under new law it will be.

  Anyway, back to mandatory reporting. It appears that if among the 300 cases there's a report of rape, RV would indeed have to report it to the police.

  Given that they have already been in contact with a lawyer, and the police, and the DA's office, and the Ministry of Justice, I'm quite sure they have this covered somehow. No doubt at least one of the above informed them of their duties.

  And from what I read it may be possible for the DA to exempt someone from mandatory reporting. Perhaps RV was granted an exemption given their function as a trustee to victims?

  Or maybe RV has already reported rape cases to the police, and simply doesn't shout it from the rooftops to protect victims?

  Anyhow, RV focus is not on whether or not Watchtower committed crimes by not reporting. Their focus is on improving the situation for victims and better prevention (see my previous post)
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  Doubter

  So Anderson,

  It’s clearly evident that RV has made up their own version of JW policies and are knocking down their own strawhouse.

  And you’ve made it aboundantly clear that this whole fisaco is really about RVs subjective interpretation of JW policies.

  Since JWs disagree with RV and are the drafters of their own policies, they actually ARE the final authority on its application, intent, and interpretation.

  This is really a waste of time. But still, this circus RV created will definitely be exposed.
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  cofty

  Doubter - Watchtower's child protection policies and procedures are not fit for purpose. They have created an environment where pedophiles can offend with impunity. This fact has been recognised by authorities all over the world.

  There was a time that the general public associated JWs with their beliefs regarding blood, or with the fact that they don't celebrate Christmas and birthdays. Increasingly it is the case that your organisation is best known for child-abuse scandals.

  You are on the wrong side of history. You might lack the moral fibre needed to disassociate yourself from this mess but you don't need to become an active apologist for it.
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  smiddy3

  The real issue here as I see it ,is that while Jehovah`s Witnesses have in house investigations of child sexual abuse among its members, victims/perpetrators by a judicial committee consisting of three male Elders ,they feel they are under no obligation to report these allegations to either the child protection authorities or the police unless they are mandated to do so .?

  Don`t they have a moral/ethical responsibility to do so when its a minor involved ? Obviously not because they do not do so.

  Because its not mandated for them to do so should that excuse them from not reporting an alleged crime when they become aware of it especially when it involves a child ?

  For them to say that is the family`s right to do so is a cop out because they caution the family against such a course because it will bring reproach on Jehovah`s name.

  And in many cases where it is mandated that they report such abuse the Elders fail to do so .
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  Doubter

  Cofty -

  You’re merely making hot takes now. This is an issue of forced interpretation, or better stated, the philosophical debate on what policies mean.

  That’s why the organization can release their standard statements, as they often do, to the media and move on.

  As far as what we are known for, lol, you are really keeping Witnesses relevant. The more you talk about them, the more you validate them. It really doesn’t matter what you are saying, if doesn’t matter how people react — you are generating interests.

  For example, Donald Trump says a lot of stupid things. He knows people won’t like it. And yet, the scandal-hungry media puts it in a headline and talk about it for days or weeks even. This is calculated and how he stays relevant.

  There is a reason why the organization never mentions opposers by name, or mentions their websites. They just generalize the lies they tell. Why give them free publicity? You give Witnesses plenty of it!

  Thats also why they don’t come out rebutting and refuting claims on a claim by claim basis. They release a statement. No need to do much more. The interests, whether positive or negative, is there already.

  People can decide for themselves from that point on.

  And there is this little tid-bit of info I forgot to mention. The Catholic Church just had almost 400 priests, a Cardlnal, and Bishop just in Washington, Philly, Chile and Australia alone resign because they were pedophiles. We are not talking lay people here — this is leadership and high ranking leadership.

  That’s impunity. Find me 400 circuit overseers or elders in the entire history of Jws that were serial pedophiles.

  Why do I mention them? Because they are the standard of abuse coverups. They are the mesuring stick.
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  Doubter

  Now exactly what authorities claims that, in your words, that child abusers can act with “impunity”?
  

  Who said that? Who explicitly recognized this “fact”?

  Now the ARC and IICSA are not authorities. They don’t have the power to make or enforce laws, nor can they prosecute. They offer corrective suggestions.

  So basically an authority would be a court of law, or those who can enforce law.
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  Doubter

  In fact, the Russian ban has been in international news for over a year year now. The Russians never mention child abuse as a reason for the ban.
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  DATA-DOG

  Please STFU. You are an idiot.

  DD