Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen 85 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  Sanchy

  You know, I though you had "said your piece" like 20 comments ago.
  You are now going around in circles like a broken record just throwing out random statements that have no bearing on the arguments of this case. First you argue on the small number of victims RV recruited, then you argue that RV should send these victims to authorities, and now your latest argument is that RV is "only voicing their opinion".
  

  So what? In this case, their "opinion" carries the weight of actual victims that can testify, these are not just "people" as you refer to. Their "opinion" carries arguments against WT policies that have been shown to be sound and true from historical accounts in their home country and elsewhere.
  You can call RV's claims an opinion, but it adds nothing to your arguments in favor of WT. Again, you have nothing.
  
• 

  Doubter

  Lol the ARC is/was not a judicial body. It was more or less the Australian version of a US Congressional hearing in which accusations, baseless or otherwise, are tossed about without consequences. They don’t have nearly the standards courts have.
• 

  Doubter

  Well, Sanchy, get them into a court room, and testify. Their claims will be analyzed, against the actually written, practiced policies.

  They have a lawyer. Just get it done.
• 

  Anders Andersen

  Why do I mention [the Catholic Church]? Because they are the standard of abuse coverups. They are the mesuring stick.

  Indeed. In fact, the Dutch Minister specifically said so himself. I'm not even joking.

  The Dutch government advised the JW to take a serious look at the way the CC in the Netherlands responded when it became clear many allegations of child abuse were reported.

  What did the CC do?

  • They started and conducted an impartial inquiry that first established the extent of the problem, then made recommendations to improve prevention and victim support.
  • The CC publicly acknowledged they failed the victims, and apologized.
  • They improved their policies.
  • They provided professional support for victims.
  • They setup a financial redress scheme.
    

  The CC are the measuring stick indeed. The Minister urged JW to follow their example. The Dutch CC volunteered to assist JW leaders, as the CC has learned a great deal.

  Guess what? JW don't want to do any of what the CC did.

  JW come up short against the measuring stick.
  

  Facts are not determined by popular opinion. RV can recruit a thousand people. In our civilized world, facts are determined by the court/legal system

  Or by independent inquiries. Apparently Watchtower wants to be able to continue to say it's just RV's opinion, or they would have started an inquiry themselves (when the government strongly urged them they do that). Maybe JW don't want an inquiry to turn up the facts?

  I guess JW leaders have never read Matthew 5:41 - If someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles.

  Nor did they apply Romans 13:

  Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword. It is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad.

  Watchtower once wrote:

  The principle Jesus taught, that of being willing to carry out legitimate requests, is valid not only for governmental requirements but also in everyday human relations. It may be, for instance, that a person with authority over you asks you to do something that you would prefer not to do but that is not contrary to God’s law. How will you react? You may feel that unreasonable demands are being made on your time and energies, and you may therefore react indignantly. The result may be ill will. On the other hand, if you comply sullenly, you may lose your inner peace. The solution? Do as Jesus recommended​—go the second mile. Do not only what is asked of you but even more than what is asked. Do it willingly. In that frame of mind, you will no longer feel that you are being taken advantage of, yet you remain free to be master of your own actions. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005126?q=matt+5%3A41&p=par#h=1

  
  

  Watchtower's own words condemn them.
  

  
  
• 

  nmthinker

  @doubter that is a misrepresentation of the truth. The ARC had considerable power evidenced by the fact that they obtained secret records that were kept secret from virtually everyone. They had the power to force Geoffrey Jackson and others to testify. Finally, 1600+ cases were reported to the police!
• 

  Doubter

  Anderson.

  How many child abuse cases were there in the Netherlands in the RCC?

  How many child abuse cases were there in the Netherlands in WT?

  Once you answer that, then you’ve answered why jws rejected the suggestion to investigate themselves.

  Jws are forcing Dekker to and co to prove themselves.

  This is exactly what’s needed.
• 

  Anders Andersen

  How many child abuse cases were there in the Netherlands in WT?

  We don't know, neither do you. An inquiry could clear that up.

  The CC also didn't think they had a problem, but they started the inquiry anyway.

  It was only through that inquiry that they found out the scope of the issue.
• 

  Sanchy

  The principle Jesus taught, that of being willing to carry out legitimate requests, is valid not only for governmental requirements but also in everyday human relations. It may be, for instance, that a person with authority over you asks you to do something that you would prefer not to do but that is not contrary to God’s law [...]The solution? Do as Jesus recommended​—go the second mile. Do not only what is asked of you but even more than what is asked. Do it willingly.

  
  

  Doubter, read, then re-read your own religious leader's words.
  
• 

  Anders Andersen

  I'll even translate the quote for you:

  It may be, for instance, that a [Dutch Minister] asks [JW leaders] to [start an inquiry into child abuse issues] that [they] would prefer not to do but that is not contrary to God’s law. How will [JW leaders] react? [They] may feel that unreasonable demands are being made on [their] time and energies, and [they] may therefore react indignantly. The result may be ill will. On the other hand, if [they] comply sullenly, [they] may lose [their] inner peace. The solution? [They should do] as Jesus recommended​—go the second mile. [They should] not only [start the inquiry] but even more than what is asked. [They should do] it willingly. - The Watchtower, 2005 (revised edition)
  
• 

  Doubter

  Anderson,

  Thanks for that reply. The RCC knew they had a problem. Their admissions of failing children and hiding abusers proves they were lying the entire time. So I call bullocks on the idea that they didn’t “think they had a problem” until an inquiry took place. They knew.

  Keep in mind, the RCCs issues are entirely different. The leadership being rife with pedophiles is not the same as regular members abusing children.

  Its one thing for rank and file to have issues, it’s an entirely different thing when those charged with protecting the flock are hiding each other. Abuse goes even unreported to the church itself when that happens.