I Did Jesus come in 1914? (page 2)

IslandWoman

Hi Garybuss,

My baptism was a symbol of my dedication to God. When I DA'd I left the Witnesses but my dedication to God remained intact. For me one had nothing to do with the other.

IW

IW, Sorry, I don't know anything about your contract with the corporation or your lack of one. I am not talking religion here. I am talking pragmatism. I have no religious questions or interests. If you are not seen by them as "their" property to do with as they wish, I complement you on having a status we have not have access to.

Their lawyers seem to think those of us who thought we were making a dedication to the invisible God of the Jews after 1985 actually made a business contract with their book publishing corporation that they have a right ot enforce with snubbing and shunning. Those vows that made us contracted to them are:

(1) "On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?"

(2) "Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in the right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."

Are you saying you are/were not under the control of the publishing corporation and they can not order you to be shunned? Please clarify. I think you are saying you were baptized for religious reasons and those did not change when you left your position of unpaid corporation worker.

IslandWoman

Hi Garybuss,

I think you are saying you were baptized for religious reasons and those did not change when you left your position of unpaid corporation worker.

Yes, I was baptized for religious reasons (I dedicated myself to God) but I never felt like an "unpaid corporation worker." When I left, I left because the religion I was in dishonored God. I left the religion but in no way did I dissolve my dedication to God.

IW

garybuss

Hi IW, Thanks! I did feel like an unpaid book distributor. All the emphasis at my Hall was on the books and magazines the corporation wrote and published. Tuesday evening we met for distribution of the magazines the corporation wrote and published, called service, for one hour. Then we returned to the meeting place and for one hour we read and answered questions from a book the corporation wrote and published.

Wednesday evening was back call night where we returned to visit people who had previously purchased some literature the corporation wrote and published. Thursday night we went to two meetings where we studied from and read out of books the corporation wrote and published. Saturday morning was magazine distribution again where we went door to door with magazines the corporation wrote and published.

Sunday was all day service where we went door to door with the offer of the month which usually consisted of a book and three booklets the corporation wrote and published. Sunday evening was two meetings together separated by a smoke break. The first meeting was called talk, where a man would talk about and read from books the corporation wrote and published. Then after the break, was the Watchtower study where we answered questions and read from a magazine the corporation wrote and published.

During the week we read the day text from a book the corporation wrote and published. That was my life as a Jehovah's Witness. All our focus was on reading from or selling the books and magazines the corporation wrote and published. Our Kingdom Hall had a literature counter where the books and magazines were counted and sold. The Hall had a library that held virtually exclusively, the books and magazines the corporation published. All the chairs faced the stage where the speakers stood who held the books and magazines that were the subject at every single meeting. Every meeting, every activity focused on that literature. Are you saying you had a different schedule at your Hall? Was the focus of your congregation on something other than the books and magazines the corporation published? GaryB

IslandWoman

Hi Garybuss,

In my life as a JW, I and my family and friends considered field service a co-operative effort to help others learn about God and the Bible. Never, never did we feel like unpaid corporation workers.

We felt we were engaged in a world wide work, one in which volunteers produced the books and volunteers placed the books. The books and mags. were simply a vehicle to spread what we thought was the truth. We loved the people we were trying to help not the vehicle.

Everyone was a volunteer.

As for the meetings, if there had not been a close adherence to the religious teaching materials of the Watchtower at those meetings than I suppose some exJWs would be complaining how the Watchtower allowed every jackass to say whatever they wanted at the meetings, no win situation. Yes, the Watchtower teaches using books and mags, the Catholics use altars and rosaries, the Pentacostals use the spirit, the Baptists lay their hands on people and claim healings. None of them have it completely right, too bad wish it were different but that's the way it is.

I dedicated myself to God not the Org. As for the second baptismal question, prior to its implementation it was an unspoken given that we were Jehovah's Witnesses after our baptism. Just as other Christians when baptized into their denomination consider themselves to be Catholics or whatever.

IW

garybuss

Hi IW, You wrote:

Everyone was a volunteer.

I was not a volunteer. I was forced into compliance and sales meetings and unpaid religious literature distribution activity by my parents under threat of physical abuse, under threat of abandonment, and later under threat from the corporation of shunning and snubbing. I was threatened and coerced and actually blackmailed into activity and silent compliance.

I appreciate that you felt like a free will volunteer. I was not and I did not feel like a volunteer, and I suspect many here did not either.

Our experiences were vastly different. Our motives were in different universes. I suspect we might well represent the universal diversity of many of the experiences. In spite of it all, I can't help but notice we are both essentially in the same place today. So different, yet so alike.

I have appreciated our exchange. Thanks! I hope it is not our last. GaryB

IslandWoman

Hi Garybuss,

I suspect we might well represent the universal diversity of many of the experiences. In spite of it all, I can't help but notice we are both essentially in the same place today. So different, yet so alike.

A fine summary of the differences among many of us and the sameness as well.

I too appreciated the exchange.

Thank you,

IW

OHappyDay

Jesus may have come in 1914. But since we believe it was invisible, we have only circumstantial evidence (wars, famines, lawlessness, etc.) that is susceptible to interpretation.

The problem I have with the preaching work it that it is too regimented. There is no biblical justification for preaching quotas. Perhaps people would enjoy it and feel more like volunteers if it had not become a matter of rote and ritual. Now the Society even tells us specifically "what to say about the magazines." Everything is taken out of our hands.

Perhaps the leadership does not trust the rank-and-file to serve out of the goodness of our hearts. Right now, it is push, push, push. All the "anointed" don't want to be dead before Armageddon strikes, so they resort to the whip to speed up the work.

I really don't think God is blessing this. The Organization has replaced Christ in our everyday speech.

garybuss

Hi OHappy, The strategy of the 1914 date is depreciated for those of us who know the history of the end time predictions for 1874. When those predictions for 1874 failed like 1843 and 1844, the end-timers assigned the invisible presence to 1874. They added 40 years to the 1874 failed date and marked the next end event date as 1914. So when that failed as well, as did 1915, 1918, and 1925, it is no surprise that they would follow their apocalyptic ancestors and assign to that date the invisible presence as well.

The Watch Tower Publishing Corporation likes to start the history of the beginning of the movement to the beginning of the business corporation and it's founder, rather than the actual founders of the end time movement. The real founder is William Miller and his followers, known by us as the Second Advent movement. If you want to understand Jehovah's Witnesses, study William Miller and the Seventh Day Adventist group and the Writings of Ellen G White. Many of these writings are on the Internet.

Charles Russell lays out much of the history in his writings, all still in print and readily available. To see the formation of the 1914 date, read Three Worlds by Nelson Barbour available on CD from www.Freeminds.org

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

unique1

Jesus came and spoke with some members of the Watchtower organization?

No. You must have JW's confused with someone else.

I Did Jesus come in 1914?

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