by Tenacious 212 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
In my thinking, a god, to be worthy of the title, and of worship, would have to be Omnipotent,Omniscient and 100% Love.
There is a mountain of evidence that such an individual, or even such a "godhead", does not exist.
(See Cofty's Thread on the Tsunami).
There is simply no evidence whatsoever for the existence of such a god as believers describe.
If he is not omnipotent, not omniscient and not love, then as the ancient Greek Philosopher said, "Why call him god ?"
So are you saying that you believe in survival of the fittest? Natural selection? - Sabin
Nobody "believes" in natural selection, it's just a fact.
Remember that "fittest" can mean the most cooperative.
Tenacious, perhaps you cling to God as if there is some mystical paternalistic force that however bad things get... you will make it to safety?
Here
is the crunch point as every atheist knows; we have only our self to rely on. This
might be hurtful to contemplate for the first time having believed in God but ultimately...
and unlike children... we are all alone.
Realising this is the reason we could experience anxiety in letting go of our
deeply cherished notion. However a great freedom and expansion of our horizons
begins once we take control and responsibility for our own lives.
The concept of God is a primitive myth which answered every question asked back in those days at the cradle of humanity. Times have changed and we have mainly resorted to knowledge to guide us rather than superstition. For the individual this is the big leap; to become our own person, not superstitious, not dependent, determining our own will and discovering the practical and testable answers to those things we once thought were magical. If we believe in a god we are condemned to be forever children and beholden.
Like the Borg, it is certainly in the financial and power interests of religious bodies to gather individuals who remain infantilised and compliant in their fear and sense of obligation to an invisible and unprovable deity.
You asked how did we individually become godless? As for me it was as diogenesister suggests; reading philosophy. As a JW and pioneering I had realised that the figure of Satan was a crude theatrical device and later the idea of God began to appear shaky but it was reading Kierkegaard (a theist) and Nietzsche (an atheist) which rapidly dissolved my belief in a god. As a suggestion; do start with a primer in the subject should you be interested. For me one of the most useful and absorbing books ever written is Bertrand Russell’s History of Western Philosophy (long but easy to read!)
If we are recommending books, then "The God Delusion" , " God is not Great" and " And Man Created God"
come immediately to mind.
I read these before I went on to read various Philosophers, maybe I did it assbackwards though.
Nobody "believes" in natural selection, it's just a fact.
All knowledge and facts are beliefs, the rub lies in the justification.
Tedious semantics.
We descended from non-human ancestors. If you insist on calling this a "belief" you need to invent a new word for the "beliefs" of religious people. Superstitions would do fine actually.
stuffwot - Epistemology, anyone?
I get epistemologied every weekend after a few slugs of vodka or a many cans of cheap Polish lager. Sorry, I'm adding no value to this thread......just couldn't resist.
I don't believe in god, spirituality or anything now. It's a shame because I'm not used to struggling on my own with things that seem to big to shoulder.
We descended from non-human ancestors.That's a well justified belief. I also believe that it's true.
If you insist on calling this a "belief" you need to invent a new word for the "beliefs" of religious people. Superstitions would do fine actually.
Tedious semantics.No. Not at all.
Let me first say, that I no longer believe in the God of the bible, nor in Jesus, nor that the bible itself is anything other than what most of you understand to be nothing more than myths, stories etc., put together by a small group of priests to help control the flock.
I have not posted on here for years, although I check in every day, the conclusions I have come to in my journey after leaving the JW's are the following, just based on my personal research, not that this is the ultimate truth I don't believe anyone has access to that, at least not yet;
I do believe in a creative force of some kind, not a benevolent creator as described in many religious traditions, I don't think it watches over us in the classic sense, but I do think it has intervened at times to put certain things in motion (ie., certain inventions, knowledge and people that have come along in history, when reading how about them, it seems there was some force guiding things to achieve the final outcome which made major impacts in the world we know today)
If we are eternal spiritual beings living a human experience (Many Lives, Many Masters by Brian L. Weiss, M.D.), which is the conclusion I've reached after reading not just that book but also about children with past life memories and many other sources, then what goes on here on earth would make so much more sense, there is positive and negative things happening, if we are eternal and get to come back after death to live endless lives why would we choose to only know what it's like to be bad, or good, or rich or poor, or healthy or sick and so on. Would we not choose to experience all that there is, if no matter what we experienced it is only that, an experience? I also do believe that either spirit beings or something at times assists humans, I have experienced it myself, I don't know why some people and not others, it doesn't make sense to me. I know that this idea will seem really out there for many, and I like I said, who really knows the ultimate truth, it just makes more sense to me.
You guys are all so awesome! I so enjoy reading what you all have to say.
All knowledge and facts are beliefs, the rub lies in the justification.
Knowing that 2+2 = 4 or the the speed of light in a vacuum are objective, observable facts that can be proven.
Believing in an invisible sky person that loves foreskins, grilling out is not.
Are you attempting to place those things on equal footing?
An odd postition for someone who enjoys evidence so much, but hey, philosophy isn't everyone's bag.
I'm very interested in useful philosophy. Do you have any of that?
