Why Do You No Longer Believe in God? (page 6)

The Rebel

If my accountant told me that knowing 2+ 2 =4 is a fact that can be proven, then I am employing the wrong tax advisor.

The Rebel.

Caedes

Not unless you consider epistemology "Tedious semantics". An odd postition for someone who enjoys evidence so much, but hey, philosophy isn't everyone's bag.

But epistemology isn't about evidence, after all pretty much all the evidence I have confirms that the world we live in is as it seems. The world responds in a logical and consistent fashion to the things I do and there is no advantage to assuming that I am in a matrix type environment being fooled (or a brain in a jar). Let's be honest if there were such evidence to be found I very much doubt it is going to be provided by an epistomologist, because I see no evidence that there is any predictive power or value in epistemology.

bohm

stuffwotifink:
All knowledge and facts are beliefs, the rub lies in the justification

bingo! I think it is possible to give an endless list of reasons to reject the claims about the (literal) christian God depicted in the bible (evolution being a particular rich source), however the reason i feel very confident this conclusion is true is consistency. For instance, to accept what the bible has to say about Jesus as literal truth, I would have to lower my standard of evidence to such a degree I would have to accept all sorts of things which are incompatible and which I consider absurd, for instance the inspiration of the book of Mormon which is much better attested historically. Or to accept the various cosmological arguments for gods existence I would have to lower my standard of evidence by such an amount I would have to accept a number of incompatible (and thus mostly false) physical theories.

stuffwotifink

But epistemology isn't about evidence, after all pretty much all the evidence I have confirms that the world we live in is as it seems. The world responds in a logical and consistent fashion to the things I do and there is no advantage to assuming that I am in a matrix type environment being fooled (or a brain in a jar). Let's be honest if there were such evidence to be found I very much doubt it is going to be provided by an epistomologist, because I see no evidence that there is any predictive power or value in epistemology.

Evidentialism is an epistemological position.

Truthexplorer

Hi Tenacious, Bro Perimeno helped me when I just about gave up the ghost as it were. After a long fade I tried to return only to be met with uncaring shepherds. His advice was to move to a loving hall. I did and it was like night and day.

cappytan

Every time someone clicks "Dislike" on one of Viviane's posts, somewhere in the universe a sky fairy dies.

freemindfade

Lol

How about this cappy,

"Every time a hater clicks dislike on viv's posts, the desert god collects a foreskin of a gentile"

man that guy's got a thing for foreskins!

I am the bronze age god of jacob! I did not have a creator, but created all things that make you think there is a creator out of nothing, now give me the end of your holy giggle stick!

Xanthippe

Tenacious, to me it is obvious that no one is in charge of this planet. Disease, natural disasters, prey animals that kill humans etc., etc. You've heard it all before. What religions have done is try and give reasons why God actually is in charge but he just appears to be doing nothing. For example the Christian religions site Genesis and the Fall as the reason. The Devil, sin and Jesus' sacrifice are given as explanations of what has gone wrong and what God is doing about it.

The reality is there is no proof that God is doing anything. It's rather like someone allowing something terrible to happen to your family, then saying it's OK because they've made a huge anonymous cash donation to charity to make up for it. This is both impossible to prove and does nothing for the suffering your family members have endured.

Religions expect us to do what God commands, through whatever holy book we are raised with, without any proof that a supreme being exists at all. We will get proof, we are told, when we die or at the end of the world. That's just no proof at all is it? Especially annoying if we are expected to obey rules to be around to receive that proof eventually.

All religious explanations that God cares and is actually in charge and looking after us are all empty stories to me. They can't be proved and if you set those stories to one side all you are actually left with is a planet that shouts life got here by 'accident' rather than design and we have to make life as fair as we can by relieving suffering ourselves.

So although you have asked for references to support why I no longer believe in God I think rather you need to provide support for a belief because none has been given to satisfy me and my explanation fits the evidence.

To answer your other questions. If your life is unfulfilling in a spiritual way and you feel the need for something bigger than your current life then perhaps you need to do something to make your life more fulfilling? There are lots of ideas on Joliette's thread about spirituality. Is there a higher consciousness you ask? I don't know but perhaps we will discover the answer one day, it is a very big universe. I just don't think the answer lies in the ancient books of primitive humans.

Caedes

Evidentialism is an epistemological position.

We are all evidentialists, that doesn't convince me there is any value in epistemology.

Viviane

If my accountant told me that knowing 2+ 2 =4 is a fact that can be proven, then I am employing the wrong tax advisor.

So you *don't* want your accountant knowing how math works?

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

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