A Question for Those Who Believe in a Higher Power...

by Piph 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Robdar

  Empirical evidence for what, exactly? For the non-existence of a being who doesn't comply with any known laws of physics and can have any properties its followers wish? Do you see why it's impossible for me to do that?

  Do you mean the law of physics as we know them to be? No, I do not see how it is impossible for you to supply empirical evidence for what you state to be fact. You are expecting believers to prove it, so why don't you disprove it? You come into this thread and start badgering people that there is no God and I say prove it. You make the claim, prove it. That's right, you can't.

  I do not care to argue with you FunkyD. I don't have time because I have work and dating to do. And besides, you are too cute to argue with and when I look at your pic I get distracted. I just don't want you to think that I am ignoring you. As I stated in my previous post to you, methinks that thou protest too much.

  I am off on a date.

  Robyn
• 

  drwtsn32

  Come on Robyn... give FunkyD a break! He's trying to help us atheists out by increasing our ranks. Plus I've been all over him for not getting at least 10 hours per month in atheistic proselytizing.
• 

  funkyderek

  Do you mean the law of physics as we know them to be?

  Yes of course. Because while there may be laws of physics we know nothing about, we obviously can't use them to support any argument.

  No, I do not see how it is impossible for you to supply empirical evidence for what you state to be fact. You are expecting believers to prove it, so why don't you disprove it? You come into this thread and start badgering people that there is no God and I say prove it. You make the claim, prove it. That's right, you can't.

  The only claim I made in this thread was that belief without evidence in a god has exactly the same validity as belief without evidence in anything else. The strongest claim I ever make as an atheist is that I don't believe in gods because I see no evidence for their existence.

  I do not care to argue with you FunkyD. I don't have time because I have work and dating to do. And besides, you are too cute to argue with and when I look at your pic I get distracted. I just don't want you to think that I am ignoring you. As I stated in my previous post to you, methinks that thou protest too much.

  Aww, Robyn, you're embarrassing me! When you say I protest too much, do you mean you think I'm trying to convince myself, or just that I spend way too much time in arguments I'm never going to win?

  I am off on a date.

  Cool! Have fun
• 

  LittleToe

  FD:
  Hi, dude, how's sunny Ireland
  How about the following subjective evidence. Make of it what you will:

  I often pray that God will use me in any way He sees fit, and so I'm sensitive in responding to circumstances and "personal inclinations" that are out of the normal.

  Someone comes to mind that I haven't seen for months, and I feel an incredible "urge" to go and visit them, even though they have come to mind several times before and after, with no such "urge".

  The very same day that person prays for someone to come to the house, having not prayed for months, asking for someone who has similar circumstances. They receive a "feeling" that I'm going to turn up, even though they don't know my full circumstances, and I live over 100 miles away.

  I visit the house and talk to the couple about this that and the other, including some of the things that have been happening in my life, and without any prior knowledge of what is going on in their lives nor any real preconception about what I'm going to find there.

  The end result is that the individual praying, and myself, get a great blessing because the prayer was answered in exquisite detail.

  I have followed such "urges" and "feelings" on many occasions, often travelling hundreds of miles, and EVERY time there has been a similar blessing.

  Maybe you don't like the label "God-directed", but then is there really a label that you would accept?
  I don't pretend to understand how the mechanics of how it works, and I don't think I'm anything special (I'm actually completely humbled by it all), but the Christian framework of understanding such anomalies works best for me. I also never had these kind of experiences before becoming a Christian, in over three decades of being an ardent JW.

  Piph:
  Add one more to the tally of those believing in a higher power
• 

  funkyderek

  Hi, dude, how's sunny Ireland

  Raining again

  How about the following subjective evidence.

  Interesting. Here's some alternative explanations which I think are at least as likely as yours:

  1. You're mistaken.

  2. You're lying.

  3. It's a coincidence.

  4. Some form of telepathy.

  5. Demons

  6. Aliens.

  Unfortunately, like you said, your evidence is subjective and thus it's impossible for anyone other than you to draw conclusions from it. My personal belief is that it's probably a combination of explanations 1 and 3. I could accept no. 4 at a stretch, if there was sufficient evidence to support it. Explanations 5 & 6 are functionally identical to your own explanation in that they can't possibly be falsified and therefore can't be tested.
• 

  LittleToe

  FD:
  It's actually sunny today, in this part of Scotland, albeit feeling a little muggy

  #1 - Nope, those are the raw facts on just one episode.
  #2 - Glad you didn't acuse me of that, though since you don't know me outside the board, I can accept the necessity for that being on the list.
  #3 - Statistically 100%, so far. I can't believe it, either
  #4 - IMHO the only realistic alternative, but who does the coordinating?
  #5 (Demons), 6 (aliens), 7 (God) - choose your framework - I go for the latter.

  I intentionally stated that it was subjective. As humans we join up the dots in a "comprehensible" manner. This generally becomes a framework that we can relate to. Each to their own, and tolerance for opposing opinions, I say.
• 

  gumby

  The very same day that person prays for someone to come to the house, having not prayed for months, asking for someone who has similar circumstances. They receive a "feeling" that I'm going to turn up, even though they don't know my full circumstances, and I live over 100 miles away.

  Hey Little Toe.

  Funny this should come up as last night I was pondering something.

  Last night on a country music television station, they had a biography of Loretta Lyn( spelled Loretta wrong). She told a story about her father dying. The night he died.......she awoke from a bad dream and told her husband something happened to her dad. He said go back to sleep and she did but awoke again to the same thing. The next morning someone knocked on the door with some bad news. Her dad had passed away that night. He had a stoke.....then soon died. Lorreta said the stroke happened at the time she first woke up from the bad dream. He died , at the time she awoke the second time.

  My point is.......we have all heard of these stories which logic tells us is not a coincidence. We also hear weird stories of two twins seperated at birth.......don't see each other for 40 years..........and when they meet they find they married girls with the same name, the kids names are the same, they drive the same car, wear the same shoes, and so on.

  What accounts for all of this? I sure do not know, but I think there is something to telepathy. What confuses me is my idea was telepathy could be concieved in persons of the same BLOOD LINE....or DNA structure coming from the same parents. I reasoned that there could be some kind of SIGNALS in our DNA that enables us to feel others pain or trouble somehow.

  The problem with the aforementioned idea is the experience you gave and others like them. You don't know the individual that well yet "something" tells you a visit is due. It becomes a blessing and both are happy. The problem for me in believing GOD did that is atheists, agnostics and others have similar experiences as those mentioned. Why would god tell Loretta Lyn her dad died? What would be the reason? I'll bet muslims, and buddists have similar stories as yours and Loretta's, so god being involved is hard to believe.

  I think just as we discovered Electricity and other things unseen before we didn't previously know existed........we will one day understand the reason behind these odd events were talking about.

  Gumby
• 

  LittleToe

  Gumby:
  So you didn't take on board my point about "frameworks" of reference, then?

  I seem to have an affinity for Christians, for some reason.
  Families seem to have an affinity, too.
  Maybe it works that way for other disciplines, like there's some kind of attunement.
• 

  Ravyn

  I believe there was Silence, Womb, Chaos, whatever- and it was basically feminine and it produced without the need of a masculine. And once it produced a masculine was 'born' and it matured and became the consort of the Original feminine to perpetuate the cycle. This can be mytholized(is that a word?--HA! it is now--I am female....)into ancient pagan paradigms or gnostic or xtian or whatever. It does not matter. Humans explain it as they can understand it. Personally I call the Highest One "IF" .

  It stands for the word "if" -- "maybe" and all the possibilities, and it is also an anagram for the action that caused IF to become my highest deity--- Infinite **** . I believe the original act of penetration of the primordial womb and ejaculation of the seed of life that resulted in the birth of another life is the ultimate sacred ritual.

  I know some on this forum will think I am crazy or just trying to shock, but honestly I really do believe that.

  Ravyn
• 

  gumby

  As humans we join up the dots in a "comprehensible" manner. This generally becomes a framework that we can relate to. Each to their own, and tolerance for opposing opinions, I say.

  Little Toe,

  So I take it you are saying the dots equal the percieved thought ones may have according to information they have taken in? Am I right?

  If this is the framework, then the framework represents the percieved idea?

  As for accepting others view......I do. I like to discuss them though in case someone knows something I do not and they can lead me or tell me the truth of the matter.

  Your a fun guy and an honest one. I'm glad your back at a time we could use some "old timers".

  Gumby