A Question for Those Who Believe in a Higher Power... (page 7)

LittleToe

Ravyn:
I have my own ideas, which aren't exactly mainstream Christian, but it'll have to wait for another time. I have to get some sleep as I'm up in the morning to go on a road trip. I'll be back on Tuesday, and logging on will be sparse before then. Thanks for sharing.

Gumby:
You're on the right track towards what I'm ineptly trying to express about my viewpoint.

The dots are pieces of infomation, or events, that are perceived subjectively.
The framework you hang them on is the one which seems to work best for you to make sense of them. This will vary greatly depending on an individuals propensity to logic, creativity, and/or sanity

Personally I see intelligent interaction in the timing of "unexplained" events that occur in my life. Another might see it differently, but that's how I interpret it. The ethos of a loving, relationship with a "higher power" isn't hard to envisage, in that context. Hence the Christian framework makes sense of these things to me.
Basically, I look at the life, kindness and tolerance of Jesus, and accept that He wants to have an interactive relationship with me. And so I have - and I find it fulfilling, exciting, and a daily adventure.

Further, I'm "permitted" liberty of thought in the circles that I engage, because most Christian frameworks allow that, unlike the JW's and the parody that we were presented of "Christendom". I do know that many have had bad experiences in this arena, though.

I'm sorry about the timing of my trip, I was just starting to enjoy this.
As for the "old timer" comment, I'll let that slide, ya ageist wee meppan - LOL.

Take care, y'all. I'll be back next week, Deo Volante.

rem

LittleToe,

I think there are some more subtle things going on that may not be obvious concerning the type of experiences you are describing.

1) There is the well known psychological phenomenon of remembering hits and forgeting misses. This is pretty much confirmed when you claim that this happens 100% of the time. There is really no way for you to know that (how many times have friends prayed for a visit and nobody came? How many times have you had an urge, but ignored it?)

2) People who believe in supernatural causes (in the paranomormal and psychological circles they are called sheep, while non-believers are called goats) are less likely to accurately predict probability. Goats, on the other hand, seem to have a firmer grasp of probability. What this means is that many events may seem like fantastic coincidences when in reality the probability of them happening is quite high. Sheep tend to interpret these events as confirmation of their belief.

3) There may be things on a subconscious level that make such happenings more probable. Perhaps something read in a newspaper or seen on TV triggers a memory that the two people share in common. This subconsciously makes both people think of the other and may make a mutually desired visit or phone call more likely than under normal circumstances. This added to #2 can make things that aren't really that strange or improbable seem really incredible.

4) The other person may not be telling you the whole story. Perhaps they were just being polite and made their expectation out to be more than it really was... perhaps due to your enthusiasm. Maybe they really do think of you often, but didn't tell you - or even forgot (see #1).

There may be other factors, but what I'm getting at is there are other things that can contribute to such experiences and they should not be automatically discounted in favor of a supernatural cause. Yes the cause may actually be supernatural, but that does not mean that the other (more simple) explanations should be ignored.

rem

gumby

Nice post Rem and some intresting comments. We'll have to do without the Toemeister for a few days but I'm sure there will be plenty of more opportunities.

You said,

3) There may be things on a subconscious level that make such happenings more probable. Perhaps something read in a newspaper or seen on TV triggers a memory that the two people share in common. This subconsciously makes both people think of the other and may make a mutually desired visit or phone call more likely than under normal circumstances.

I like that! It made a lot of sense and I know this type of thing happens OFTEN with my work partner. It may be a song on the radio that was played a month ago and a certain event happened with that song. We both hear the song, then we both think of that event a month ago, then one of us comments about that event and the other says, ...."how weird , I was just thinking the SAME thing!!!"

Many things happen on a subconscience level than we are aware of at the present.

BTW......check your PM.

Gumby

gumby

bttt

Robdar

Expat, I haven't forgotten about you. I have been meaning to respond to you for days.

I guess that if we were to start throwing labels around then you would be "agnostic", yes?

No, I believe in God. Just not necessarily the God forced down our throats at the KH or through other Christian terms. Most people including non believers look outwardly to find God. God is found within.

As you know, I'm an atheist, because I have a lack of belief in God. This is different from believing that God doesn't exist. The position is that, until there is convincing evidence that cannot be explained any other way than by the existence of God, I will by default lack belief in the existence of such an entity.

I believe that an atheist has no belief in God. "Theist" meaning belief in God; and "a" meaning without. Sounds to me as if you are an agnostic with a borderline atheist personality. Let's look at the dictionary to find out more:

a·the·ist [ áythiist ] ( plural a·the·ists )

noun

unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities

ag·nos·tic [ ag nóstik ] ( plural ag·nos·tics )

noun

1. somebody denying God’s existence is provable: somebody who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists

So, you would be an agnostic, Expat.

Robyn

expatbrit

Robyn:

Sounds to me as if you are an agnostic with a borderline atheist personality

I guess it depends where you want to draw the border! I class myself as an atheist, because I lack belief in the existence of God. (I'm also an asantaist, whereas according to your dictionary definitions, everyone must be either a believer in Santa or at least agsantic). While it is true that we have not yet checked out every corner of the universe or discovered every piece of knowledge, the level of scientific development we have reached already provides us with plausible theories that render God unnecessary, and show the stories and arguments for Its existence to range from the flawed to the ridiculous.

Thus, I have a lack of belief in God, and a belief that no evidence for God will ever be found. That pretty much makes me an atheist, IMO.

Expatbrit

Robdar

(I'm also an asantaist, whereas according to your dictionary definitions, everyone must be either a believer in Santa or at least agsantic).

Hey, I am asantaist too! Cool, I knew that we had to share some common beliefs or, in this case, disbeliefs.....

Thus, I have a lack of belief in God, and a belief that no evidence for God will ever be found. That pretty much makes me an atheist, IMO.

Okay, Expat, maybe I diagnosed you incorrectly. You are an atheist with a borderline agnostic personality. Thanks for clearing that up. I will sleep better tonight.

Rob

expatbrit

ROFL!

Expatbrit

LittleToe

I'm back...

Rem:
Without any desire to have this turn into another "Ghost" thread, I will just say that every time I have responded to this "urge" I've had a hit.

A Question for Those Who Believe in a Higher Power...

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