Hi again Class Avenger,
you said:
So, did the disciples find out Jesus claimed to be God from listening to his preachings?
Myx:
I would first have to say that they believed Him. If the Jews did not believe that Jesus was G-d in Nature, the Son of G-d who had revealed Himself, then there would have had no right to claim salvation through Him, because of these three things
Isaiah 43:11
"I, even I, and the LORD (YHWH)
and apart from me there is no savior.
I, and not some foreign god among you.
You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,"that I am God.
Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it."
Is 45:21-"Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me."
Hosea 13:4
"But I am the LORD your G-d,
who brought you out of Egypt.
You shall acknowledge no G-d but me,
no Savior except me."
Also, "You shall acknowledge NO SAVIOR EXCEPT ME." Obviously the Jews were familiar with this, and now THEY would have been blaspheming the LORD to say what is said about Jesus Christ over and over and over in the New Testament.
I do think that Isaiah 43:11 is a Messianic prophecy, because it says "No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it." And, Jesus says in the New Testament
John 10:28
Jesus speaking
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand."
Jesus said He was the door that we enter through into the Kingdom of G-d. He said that He was the way, the truth and the life. His apostles said that those "who hath the Son hath life, those who do not have the Son, shall not see life" Both He and they claimed exclusivity for Salvation "The only name under Heaven, given unto men, by which we must be saved" Jesus made it abundantly clear to them apparently.
For a few of these verses that refer to Jesus as the Savior:
John 3:36-"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Rom 10:13-"Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord [Jesus] will be saved."
John 5:24-"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but HAS passed out of death into life."
John 6:47-"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes HAS eternal life."
Rom 5:11-Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation
Titus 1:3-God our Savior
Titus 1:4-Christ Jesus our Savior
Titus 2:13-looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus
Titus 3:4-God our Savior
Titus 3:6-Jesus Christ our Savior
2 Pet 1:1-to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
And it was not only John who said that He was the Creator.
Col 1:15-16-And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born [cp. Ps 89:27, Gen 41:51-52, Jer 31:9] of all creation. For by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created by Him and for Him.
Paul says:
Colossians 2:9
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form."
The apostles believed because a) He was born from Mary who was a virgin, He fulfilled every Messianic prophecy, He healed, spoke in parables, and raised people from the dead, including Himself, He was crucified taking on the sins of men. So, I believe Jesus made it clear that He was the way, and He fulfilled the Law. Again, if He were not the only salvation, He would have had to have been a madman, He would have had to fool His apostles. They reveal their belief in every word of the New Testament. He is the Creator, He is the Savior, He has always existed.
Did that answer your question?
Myxomatosis
Trinitarians, Did Jesus reveal himself as God?
by ClassAvenger 13 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Myxomatosis
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ClassAvenger
Thanks for your post Myxomatosis, its awesome. Yeah, you have answered my questions, thanks.
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gumby
but I know from what I've read that the disciples knew and taught it. My question is, did Jesus tell them, or did they have this revealed when they were anointed by the Holy Spirit?
How come in every single "letter" to the congregations......no mention of Jesus is made of his life.......on earth?
It isn't until the gospels we find this man who is also divine.
Many believe if Jesus truely existed, he never claimed equality with god or to be him. They feel the church deified jesus as the stories grew and an official messiah was desired.
Others believe he never existed other than a mythical figure, a spirtitual one, and men LATER penned the gospels AFTER the" letters," and gave Jesus a local fleshly history, born through a virgin woman, he came from heaven............just like the OTHER beliefs in the area at the time Jesus was to have existed. The only difference is, the other beliefs that had many identical characteristics as Jesus...........is these myths were MUCH older.
Gumby
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Myxomatosis
Hello Gumby,
Gumby: Many believe if Jesus truely existed, he never claimed equality with god or to be him. They feel the church deified jesus as the stories grew and an official messiah was desired.
Myx: I think the history thing has already been done spectacularly on other threads, so I won't get into it. About the church deifying Jesus? errr...no. Jesus did that (have you read any of Polycarp (disciple of John the Baptist) or Ignatius (disciple of Polycarp)?) They and the other early Church Fathers quote the gospels extensively, in their writings, before the Roman empire through Constantine adopted Christianity, you could reconstruct the entire New Testament throughout. This man Jesus, was either Lord, lunatic or liar.
Gumby: Others believe he never existed other than a mythical figure, a spirtitual one, and men LATER penned the gospels AFTER the" letters," and gave Jesus a local fleshly history, born through a virgin woman, he came from heaven............just like the OTHER beliefs in the area at the time Jesus was to have existed. The only difference is, the other beliefs that had many identical characteristics as Jesus...........is these myths were MUCH older.
Myx: Yeah, when I typed in 'pagan view of Christianity' I read alot of it. It would seem to me though, that these people are being incredibly dishonest if you look into it. Here's a site that questions the accusations.
www.heartofisrael.org
very good site
I know you don't believe in Him, but I don't think anyone should listen to the horribly ignorant theories about a reconstruction of pagan myth. It's really sad what they say.
Myxomatosis