troubled [in need of answers]

by zev 38 Replies latest jw friends

Winston Smith

Zev,
I'm close to your area. Mail me at [email protected], and I'll give you my phone. I'm out of town until Monday evening, so you'll hear from me then. In my experience, there's hope...
take care,
ed aka Winston
LDH

PoorZev.
Here goes the WT, ruining yet another marriage.
Zev, Yeru was right on the money. Take that woman OUT on non-meeting nights. Take her to Charity Auctions, dinners, anything where she can start to see that not ALL non jw's are demonised, lol.
The Borg has turned this into a game, and you've got to play or walk away.
Tell that woman how much you love her, and that you are NOT trying to hurt her. (if true, lol)
Get her out of the house, even if it's just a walk in the park man. Get her away from her comfort zone, cause for sure that's what the KH and all that crappy literature is. Her comfort zone, and as you are experiencing it is painful as hell to walk away from somthing so 'comfortable.'
Hugs to you Zev, will be praying for you.
zev

Thank you all for your kind words, thoughts, and prayers.
After missing Thursdays meeting and needing to talk to someone, I met up with my sister Saturday for breakfast. I figured, someone in my family should know whets going on. And besides, I don’t spend enough time with her and thought it would be a nice thing to do. So I made the 40-minute trek to the next state and then brought her to my state for breakfast. {??? Don’t ask, even I don’t understand it } I told her everything. About the truths I discovered about the borg. about their deceptions and lies. And about, yes, about pedophiles. She has two young children so I know she was listening to that part with allot of attention.
I was facing my crossroads, still am. But I felt that I needed to tell my wife that, I no longer wanted to go to the meetings, and I no longer wanted to be part of this anymore. Telling her wasn’t going to be easy, I knew. I am very blunt and straightforward. I say exactly whats on my mind, {when I do speak} and leave you with no doubt as to where you stand with me.
Sunday after an all day shopping jaunt, she came home late, and started doing the unusual. Talking to me. Yeah, that’s right. Almost 2 decades of marriage, and suddenly she sits in the same room and starts jibber jabbering with me while on the exercise bike. I had been in a very dark mood all day, I did NOT go to the meeting, and I was brooding about everything that was wrong in my life. About the wtbts, and the lie I have lived all my life thinking I had the truth. About the strain this might put on my marriage, and possible consequenses of my actions. About my marriage of almost 2 decades, almost 4 years of which have passed by with no intimacies at all. And about sleeping in a different bed for over a year. This all was piling up on me. I could feel the weight. I needed to get if off me.
Unfortunately for her, she asked the right question at the wrong time.
"Did you go to the meeting today"? {She had gone to another cong, earlier in the day} I just looked at her, NO. So, you’re not going to go to the meetings anymore? NO. Why not? It was all-downhill from there.
Before we got into much, I told her how she was already being set up for a fall. She was shocked. I said, you said something to your friend, and she repeated or said something to her elder husband. He in turn came to me with great concern over my well being, and wanted to get me some help. And he very specifically asked about our sex life. Or rather lack there of. He could only get that from one place, and it wasn’t me. My wife said, that’s none of their business. I said wrong, it is as far as their concerned, it’s biblical, and if they try to meet with us, I won’t allow it, because a: they arn’t trained to deal with these issues, and are not qualified. b: only the worse will happen and I’m not going to betray you like that. so i wont talk to them. i CANNOT talk to them. at all. period.
i tryed not to tell her to much. but i had to tell her something. tell her how troubled i was, how things i found out bothered me, and how unknown to me, till very recently, how troubled i have been for YEARS, and that quite possibly the questions i was finding answers to today were the reasons i had inadvertantly stepped aside from my position from years ago. i stepped aside on impulse, following my heart at the time, but never really knew why i had done what i did till now.
the big question came, do you believe that gods spirit is acting on an organization and that organization is the wtbts. {almost like i was already sitting in a jc.}
NO
i was calm. cold. i had to be in order to tell her things. she had to see how deeply i felt it was true, my conviction had to be written all over me for her to see it. i had to remain in control of all my emotions. i had done alot of thinking. it rolled out way to easy. and i know there were somethings she could not even answer. and some things i should have left out. ask the elders she said. not! write to the society. yeah, and have a letter come back here and go into a file that will be kept for years on me because i questioned something. no. i think , again, NOT.
she doesn't understand that questioning the borg gets you a lable of apostate and tossed.
she called me the "a" word. she was flipping mad at me. this continued till sometime around 3am.
the reason it went so late is that we had a problem. if i leave the "org" then i leave her. there is no way she is leaving. if i leave, then she is no longer married.
i had reasoned that this might be a real possibility. that she might feel this way, she might take this stance, and not be able to seperate, marriage, and serving the borg.
i got one hours sleep sunday night.
she cryed what was left of the night away. when i got up an hour later, all refreshed from my long nap, she was up, and we talked more.
stil the same ending, leave them, leave me.
unbelievable.
and i wondered why people call this a cult?
love is supposed to be unconditional. here i am wanting to walk away from something i no longer believed ever had gods backing, and if i do, my marriage goes with it. what kind of a cult IS THIS anyways?
went to work, and tryed to make it throught the day. i left early. sheer exaustion and the need to come home and see if she was ok.
she wasnt. the second i got home we talked more.
if you leave the org, then i'm no longer married.
but thats not christian, i said.
but thats the way it is.
so here i sit tonight, wondering how did i let my marriage go to hell, and why did she let it go to hell, and why did we do nothing about it, and why is it that i am now faced with an ultimatum.
i have one hell of a decision to make, with no right posible answer.
tonght i'm ok, its calm here. but i have a decision to make now.
a decision no husband should ever have to make.
and thanks for letting me tell y'all about it. i needed to. its been a very rough week.
__
zev
Now feeling the pain of sitting on the pickets class.
peaceloveharmony

zev, ((((((((((((bear hug)))))))))))))))
thank you for sharing that with us. i don't know what to say or do, but i just want you to know that i care for you. i want to play a song for you. it helped me when i left the borg, kind of an anthem for me....closer to fine, the indigo girls
i'm trying to tell you something about my life
maybe give me insight between black and white
and the best thing you've ever done for me
is to help me take my life less seriously
it's only life after all
yeah
well darkness has a hunger that's insatiable
and lightness has a call that's hard to hear
i wrap my fear around me like a blanket
i sailed my ship of safety till i sank it
i'm crawling on your shores
i went to the doctor, i went to the mountains
i looked to the children, i drank from the fountains
there's more than one answer to these questions
pointing me in a crooked line
and the less i seek my source for some definitive
(the less i seek my source)
the closer i am to fine
the closer i am to fine
and i went to see the doctor of philosophy
with a poster of rasputin and a beard down to his knee
he never did marry or see a b-grade movie
he graded my performance, he said he could see through me
i spent four years prostrate to the higher mind
got my paper and i was free
i went to the doctor, i went to the mountains
i looked to the children, i drank from the fountains
there's more than one answer to these questions
pointing me in a crooked line
the less i seek my source for some definitive
(the less i seek my source)
the closer i am to fine
the closer i am to fine
i stopped by the bar at 3 a.m.
to seek solace in a bottle or possibly a friend
and i woke up with a headache like my head against a board
twice as cloudy as i'd been the night before
and i went in seeking clarity.
i went to the doctor, i went to the mountains
i looked to the children, i drank from the fountains
yeah we go to the doctor, we go to the mountains
we look to the children, we drink from the fountains
yeah we go to the bible, we go through the workout
we read up on revival and we stand up for the lookout
there's more than one answer to these questions
pointing me in a crooked line
the less i seek my source for some definitive
(the less i seek my source)
the closer i am to fine
the closer i am to fine
the closer i am to fine
words and music emily saliers
copyright 1988 godhap music (bmi)
love you zev
harmony
edited to add this:
emily saliers quote from 2/27/1999: over at amy's, footnotes:
"i started to think about the ways that we try to solve our problems, and the songs is about a quest for balance in life. it's saying we put all our stock into religion or a therapist or into a vacation or things like that. it's better to take all things into account, rather than think that one source is going to give you all the answers to your problems."
h
mommy

Zev,
I have never in my life been touched by a man's thoughts before, as you have with this. My heart is breaking for you, and the tears will not stop. You have shared so much with us, and that shows your confidence in us as your friends. I will always be here if you need me. I don't know what more I can do but just let you know I am here, and will try to help if I can.
Ok,
Now the rage...I hate what this org does to us. I hate what they continue to do to us. Yes I have said before that they can't hurt, if you don't let them... but they can and do.
When is this going to end? When are the boys gonna admit to this and move on? Who is benefitting NOONE! Why can't they just callit quits and give everyone their life back
Francois

Man, what a situation.
We all really know when we failed a test, when the light turned red before we cleared the intersection, when we fudged the truth, when a relationship is over. And you've said yours is over already; you're probably right. Most marriages have been over for about two years before they reach the courtroom so they say.
Also, you have described your wife as having a closed mind; she didn't want to hear the result of your research you said. And you already know that a mind is like an umbrella, it only works when it's open.
Seems the handwriting is on the wall, and now it's a question of how much damage you will sustain getting out. That's largely up to you and depends on what you attempt to hang on to and how long you'll hang on.
The instant you want something, anything, from someone else, you make of yourself a slave of that person. And the degree of the slavery is directly related to the degree, the emotional intensity and involvement, of your dedication to getting what you want from that person.
If it sounds like I've been there, you're right. I'm a two-time looser. The first marriage produced two children and I wanted to stay with them with a ferocious intensity. Naturally. And I put myself through hell trying to "make" it work; to stay in the marriage. And in the end, I didn't stay and covered myself with many, many injuries of all types in the attempt to stay.
In the second, there was nothing I wanted from her. Nothing. Including even the time of day. I packed my stuff (and if I didn't need it before Tuesday at lunch, I figgered I didn't need it at all.) and walked out without so much as a goodbye. It was six years before I laid eyes on her again.
Those little stories represent the extremes of slip/slidin' away. And it's up to you where on the scale you'll fall. And that's a function of whether you make your decisions with the mind that discovered the truth about the Borg, or not.
My two cents.
Francois
DannyBear

zev,
The hell you are experiencing will subside. The 'night tears' will visit you less and less as time does its magic. Everything you are feeling at this moment, is in no way unique.
Only slight variations of your story, tell mine as well. Even if you do not see it now, you have been in the process of leaving the cult for several years now. Attitudes about meeting attendance and the whole package of being a jw..have been eroding much longer than you might like to admit. This is good, it is normal.
The most important 'recording' to keep playing over and over in your mind is I'AM NOT WICKED, DOOMED, WORTHLESS, and most of all DEPENDENT, on anyone or group for life itself. Everything the controler's (jws) now confront you with, will by to excersise their will, their rules, their conscience onto you. DONT LET EM! Fight like hell man...they want to meet, you aint got the time. They want to discuss, you demand. They want to play games, you don't know how.
Your very self worth and image is riding on how well you fight back.
They can't win if you throw a smile back, as they loose a big sappy, headbowing, frown your way. The more enthusiastic about your life changes, you are, the more they stew in their own crap.
I wish that I had had all of the love and emotion, now being shared by these fine folks here on Jw.com. When I went through my hell 20yrs ago there wasn't any kind of support. You have more understanding among this group of cyber-analysts than you will ever find from some 'head shrinker' whose brush with a cult, may well have been a mild hazing at the local state Univ Alpha Omega House.
Private or public, I will consider it a privelege to offer any assistance I can.
DannyBear
zev

again,
thank you. and a (((HUG))) to all of you. though my topic said in need of answers, the only answers are those that only i can provide. while heartbreaking and gut wrenching this story is, as it unfolds, i feel that it was important to share, as have others, for the sake of support. knowing that your not the only one, is support in of itself. when others, like yourselves express your feelings about what you have read, you contribute to the support of the victim, and to those who are also troubled and desperate.
to simon, i want to say, god bless you. i cannot imagine ever having to go through this hell without the support system thats developed here. your contribution of this forum, in my opinion, is like no other out there. and although trouble arises from time to time, this system, forum, is the best place for people like me to go when the times are desperate. thank you simon, from the bottom of my heart.
i will keep on pursuing the truth. gods truth. and although i have tough decisions to make, and emotional crisis ahead of me, i'll turn to my friends here, to share, to help support, and to conquer.
thank you all.
__
zev
Now feeling the pain of sitting on the pickets class.
metatron

Zev, I have much the same problem, altho it's getting
better.
First, don't do ANYTHING to get yourself df'd or da'd.
Here's your mantra, dude "I'M DEPRESSED!" - you ARE
depressed, aren't you? Skip meetings and field service
because of depression - it's popular in congregations
and easy! Don't argue about doctrinal points - most
Witnesses have a mindset that is NO different than
"born agains", when you come right down to it.
Getting your wife to adjust to this reality must be
done s-l-o-w-l-y. You gotta chip away at the edges
of the "truth", not club people over the head with
its corruption. It's best to bring up small subjects
that carry an emotional punch - forget abstract doctrine-
go for stuff where people get hurt by the Watchtower.
The elders I served with are such uncaring idiots they
"made the case" for me so my dear wife isn't so blind any more.
metatron
think41self

Zev,
So many have given you such good thoughts and offered such support. I am here to add mine, also. (Support that is, whether the thoughts are any good is, of course, your decision)
The thought about avoiding getting df'd by claiming depression is actually a very good one. My ex-husband did suffer from depression for years, slowly quit going to meetings, now he hasn't been to a meeting for years and has had several girl friends, and no one has ever come after him! And he has witness relatives, but they aren't about to rat on him, because he's "depressed", and not responsible for his actions. Hell, I'd rather be labeled depressed by my JW relatives than "apostate", know what I mean?
Anyway, as far as your wife goes, as everyone has said, only you can make this decision. But I have to wonder, without the physical closeness in a loving relationship, how much "love" is really left in this marriage? Just my opinion. If you think there's even a chance of rekindling the love, then fight like hell for it! But if it's gone, buddy, there ain't nothin' you can do to bring it back. You can have your pain now, all at once, or hang on maybe for years longer, and still have the pain of the intervening years, and then have more pain when it all still falls apart. Me, I'd rather have my pain now, get it over with, do my grieving, and get on with my life. But that's just me. And whichever way you decide to go, a good therapist can be an invaluable aid to you in re-discovering who YOU are, and of course all the free therapy you get on this board.
Sorry I spoke so long, but your situation, and all the others who have suffered or are suffering likewise, just infuriates me! Take care of yourself, and please let us know how it's going. You know you will find unconditional acceptance here!
think41self

troubled [in need of answers]

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