"There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

by unsure 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  unsure

  @waton

  There is no evidence to support what you are saying; it's all in the subjective view of Creationists. If there was, there would be no need of inumerable discussions like this.

  There is no undeniable evidence.

  Respectfully, what you are saying is just an exact rehash of what countless other Creationists have said before you and undeniably proves nothing.

  I believe it is possible that there may be something but it's not based on undeniable evidence (if I'm being intellectually honest with myself), it is based on pure faith and speculation.

  I believe you are missing the point of the OP.

  We are going in circles here and it's not constructive to keep replying to eachother so I'll stop.
• 

  ttdtt

  @waton

  I recommend you do a little reading about - not how we can fit god into what we know - because that is already skewing your investigation because you will make things fit - but of real hard science. (Deepak Chopra does not qualify:) )

  Also BIG POINT. I know FEW people who have ANY understanding of what they hear dealing with - cosmology - quantum mechanics - or particle physics.

  Information from these area are often used as PROOF of a god... and it is almost ALWAYS a complete misunderstanding of the facts. This is not because people are dumb or devious, but that they would be better apt at understanding brain surgery than those areas of knowledge.

  IT IS FAR TO COMPLEX!!! FYI there are only 7000 astrophysicist in the world.

  I love science and I literally am reading books on those topics ALL THE TIME, and I know I don't understand more than the concepts.

  Good books if you want to get a base to have your arguments spring from are below.

  A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing

  How Old Is the Universe?

  Edge of the Universe: A Voyage to the Cosmic Horizon and Beyond

  Knocking on Heaven's Door: How Physics and Scientific Thinking Illuminate the Universe and the Modern World

  Warped Passages: Unraveling the Mysteries of the Universe's Hidden Dimensions

  Undeniable: Evolution and the Science of Creation

  Welcome to the Universe: An Astrophysical Tour

  The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory

  The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time, and the Texture of Reality
• 

  unsure

  @ttdtt

  Very well said. You understand what I'm trying to say. I'll hit that like button. I would like to elect you as my official spokesperson on this subject haha. All your posts are much appreciated. Thank you.
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  "I believe it is possible that there may be something but it's not based on undeniable evidence (if I'm being intellectually honest with myself), it is based on pure faith and speculation."

  Well for me the evidence i received was undeniable. It couldn't be for someone else. I think what crossed me over from your position to mine was the leap of faith; picking up the phone to say hello to the voice on the other side, taking the chance i would receive an answer.
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  waton

  ttdtt:

  It might surprise you, but I have read most of these works and then some. It is a fact too, that the Universe is humming along quite nicely and apparently made itself, without any input from these learned and intelligent writers.

  Just because the formulas, equation describe to some extend explain what is happening in nature does not mean at all that we have come to break the barrier to understand existence.

  Just because we have come a long way to explain how it works, does not mean it is not work in the first place.

  work so complete that it will function without ever having to be touched again.

  Each item on science news explains better and better how it was done, put on auto pilot in the first place.
• 

  unsure

  @Check_Your_Premises

  That is the problem though, it shouldn't require a "leap of faith" which is the point of my OP.

  However, I am waiting by the phone for the call and this is despite being an ex born-in, babtized Jehovah's Witness and having a greater portion of my life ruined by the Jehovah's Witness cult and their version of the Christian God. I should be running away from any notion of a Christian God. However I am still humbly here earnestly seeking God. I've prayed for a call back. I pray to whomever is out there to reveal themselves to me. I give God (if they are there) the benefit of the doubt that maybe my human understanding is indeed too limited to understand their purpose. I'm envious of those who have received this undeniable proof, and am in awe of their strong faith. I crave a hope. Perhaps all in due time.
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  waton

  @ unsure. you are asking for a revelation, and wt/witnesses are a revelation-based religion, from the talking snake to the trumpets in revelation. so,

  Do not expect better revelations, instead switch tracks, expect more insights from sciences' sharp foci., better seeing. better looking
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  unsure

  As mentioned in my last post, I do still humbly pray for this irrefutable proof and give God the benefit of the doubt, BUT if I ever do receive it, I hope I do not expect to be able to explain it realizing that it is still nothing but confirmation bias. I hope to be humble enough to remain silent on this PERSONAL irrefutable proof I received. I hope to remain humble enough to realize that this proof would be mine alone and would not stand up to TRUE objectiveness.

  I am already clinically diagnosed with mental illness; I take the maximum dose prescribed by the drug manufacturer, so I would always still be doubting if this proof I received is not the result of my missfiring neurons. No, I'm not saying that beleif is a result of mental illness, rather that I PERSONALLY would check myself and hold my own mind up to objective scrutiny and even then I would not be sure.
  
• 

  waton

  @unsure: Sorry to hear about the health issues. That it is why

  it is so important not to rely on personal experiences to come to conclusions about the big questions, but rely on the unalterable evidence offered in creation/nature itself.

  added: Creation just might be the only message we have about it's source, so better read it carefully. Be wary even of voices you think could have divine origin. (do not believe everything you think) I dont.
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  ttdtt

  @wanton

  Ok what is your evidence?
  (That which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief;proof.)
  

  Not understanding something or being in awe DOES NOT QUALIFY!

  And on the books you read - really... you just happen to read the same ones I did - what points in them made you think that god is a possibility?
  
  Cuz if you read those - I don't see how you could be saying - yea, there seems to be good reason to believe in a COMPLETELY made up Super Super Hero who is so awesome he can't get 2 people to believe the same exact thing about him.

  Sounds to me more like when the WT talks about how Origin of Species really disproves evolution:)