Did Jesus really suffer? Really?

by purrpurr 42 Replies latest jw friends

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  purrpurr

  So over the course of three days he had a trial which doesn't seem to have bothered him much. He got whipped OK that would have been agony and then put on a torture stake/ cross/ whatever yes that would have been hell. But he was on it for a day and the whole thing lasted for three days. During the whole time he knew that it was for a noble cause (apparently) and that he would be resurrected once he died. He also knew his reward would be to rule over the universe too.

  Now compare that to someone who spends years with cancer, getting weaker and weaker with the pain getting worse and worse, with their body packing up and living with the indignity of it all. Knowing all the while that once their dead no one will give them a second shot at life.

  Does it really compare?
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Does it really compare? - no, not with someone who's suffering from chronic illness/disease.

  But, assuming there was a 1st century carpenter called Jesus and the gospel accounts of his arrest, torture and death are correct, then he would still have suffered. A lot. Death by crucifixion is inhumane. He might have been beaten by Roman guards, too. He might have been denied food and water.

  Also, the Romans no doubt didn't recognize hate crimes against ethnic minorities. Jesus was a Jew, a member of an ethno-religious minority at the mercy of the Roman State. He might have been verbally and racially abused.
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  xjwsrock

  Yeah I see your point.

  I have thought the same thing. On a scale from 1-10 of ways to die ,his death is up there - maybe an 8 but certainly not a 10. Many people have died worse deaths involving longer-lasting agony and more torture. Prisoners of war come to mind.

  What bothers me more is the focus on how big a "sacrifice" it was. What was really sacrificed in the end? Maybe a human body? It was a body he didn't want long term anyway.

  Everything was back to normal less than 3 days later. Jesus was kickin it in heaven. Jehovah had his favorite son back. Anybody that has lost a loved one has made a bigger sacrifice than this. His existence hit pause for a couple of days. The equivalent of a coma in our world.

  When I hear speakers say Jehovah loved the world so much he gave his son, I just roll my eyes. He didnt lose his son. The whole story is overdramatized.
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  Pete Zahut

  The thing that always threw me off and no one was able to answer satisfactorily,was the fact that Jesus HAD to die or be sacrificed in order to buy back the life Adam lost for mankind.

  If everyone would have listened to him and accepted him how would he have paid the "ransom" ? If he was perfect and no one killed him, would he have just lived on forever?
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  Finkelstein

  Jesus was just a character of ancient mythology, a figure of fiction credited by men for their own specific purpose and intent.

  Did their endeavors create believers of their story ? yes and they were successful toward their original intent.

  As a close study of ancient mythology shows that a returning earthly Messiah to help mankind of its enduring perils was not unique to the first Christians alone there were many other before the supposed life of Christ and from different civilizations.   
  
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  xjwsrock

  The fact that the story has survived this long despite holes in the plot, shows how desperate the average person is to be saved from this life by a superhero/father figure. I feel bad for people on the one hand and a loathing for those that have exploited this for personal gain.
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  Diogenesister

  IF there was a historical Jesus he was probably a deluded psychotic who suffered horribly and died young for no reason. Very sad.

  IF IT WAS ALL JUST AS THE WITNESSES SAY THE ONLY REAL SACRIFICE ( PATSY) WAS POOR OLD JUDAS. As you say Jesus had a rotton death ( there are worse ) but after a day of suffering is living it large with his dad up in heaven...and as peteZahut correctly pointed out if we were all good and listened to Jesus where does they leave Jehovah's BIG PLAN? Someone HAD to do the betraying and as jah KNEW the result beforehand ( wheres the free will?)that someone is now condemned forever .... Now THATS what I call a sacrifice!
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  Diogenesister

  And I fail to see how Jehovah " gave" his son...three Earth days to God must be less than a millisecond to us...he knew he was getting him back anyways...any mother who waves her son off to fight for their country sacrifices a million times more for her compatriots.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  three Earth days to God must be less than a millisecond to us...he knew he was getting him back anyways - this and other similar comments on this thread are absolutely correct, but can we just agree that possibly being verbally (even racially) abused, likely beaten by guards, possibly being denied adequate food and water, being nailed to a crucifix/stake and dying on it many hours later is an unpleasant way to die.

  Anyone suffering the above would have seriously suffered.
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  purrpurr

  I remember when I was mentally in, thinking to myself could I go through the same things that Jesus did? Well I'd been coming from his same perspective (alive since beginning of time) and if I'd known like he did that I'd be resurrected in three days and then glorified for the rest of my days then yeah. No matter what pain it involved I reckon I could suffer anything if I had that to cling on to.