Update on study with Elder.... (page 4)

johnny cip

shotgun; you did an excelent job. bar none you started off right with lets read through the bible starting with matthew. . then busted him on the nwt and new light , i never heard anyone say before how can the end of the gentiles come before the great tribulation . boy the was great wow. as for the 607 date i would invite the elder to take me to the public library to back it up? and for the 1914,1918,1919 datesas i said before let them back it up . if they can't they are the ones lying. maybe a study on the finished mystery 1917 would be in order. at this point i would stand behind the questions you already persented, and say no more. unless you want to make them stumble some more prov 4-19 shotgun just go with your heart and it will all work out , you have too much for them!!!!!!!!!! as for scholar you asked for some thing to back up his 30 yrs of research , and he came back with nothing, not one book not written by a jw. shows what a scholar , scholar really is!!!!!! freedom in christ john

ellderwho

shotgun, email me. I think we can share notes. er- eldernotes.

run dont walk

all I can say is well done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

will he really be coming back is the question ???

scholar

elderwho

You have a poor understanding of the spirit directed organization and the role of its faithful slave. My suggestion is for you to do more personal study and pray for holy spirit so that all these things can be made manifest to you. My suggestion is for you to focus on the letters of Paul and the role of the Church in these modern times.

scholar

BA MA Studies in Religion

RAYZORBLADE

Shotgun: you live up to your name.

And I commend you for it.

shotgun

Scholar..... thanks for not backing up any of your claims concerning dates as construed by the WT.

I'm not sure where you stand, I can tell by your posts you are probably not a JW yet you like to stir the pot on issues with claims of invisible proof.

Peter told us to test out the inspired expressions and by doing research many of the ones on this forum have followed his advice and come to conclusions that are in total dissagreement with what they have been taught.

If you truly are a scholar then why would you resort to thinking with your emotions and your heart on scriptural matters, the heart is treacherous and not to be trusted was the scriptural counsel. I believe the the heart of many on this forum had wished to find the Org was right on many of the issues they researched and were dissappointed to find deception and lies.

Another great scholar much like yourself gave a fine example to live by which can apply also in discerning what is true or false and then what you do with that new knowledge.......(Stupid is what stupid does...Forest Gump)

Also you told elderwho

You have a poor understanding of the spirit directed organization and the role of its faithful slave. My suggestion is for you to do more personal study and pray for holy spirit so that all these things can be made manifest to you. My suggestion is for you to focus on the letters of Paul and the role of the Church in these modern times.

Thats good advice but why don't you remove the rafter from your own eye first then maybe you can help remove the straw from the eye of another.

BTW Scholar does the Jehovahs Witness church where you attend have an extensive library of older publications which you can research?

obiwan

Hey, if he has to bring in the CO, he must feel he is in way over his head on this. I would think an average elder would suffice. You made his head spin, that much is certain. He doesn't even feel confident enough to field these questions on his own.

xjw_b12

Shotgun. Way to go. I've been away for a while, but was thinking of you and your family.

You have obviously been doing your homework.

You mentioned in an earlier post:

An Apostate rejects his former beliefs or religion...under that dictionary description the WTBTS has been guilty of Apostasy whenever they reject a teaching which they formally taught as truth.

That's always been a favourite of mine.

The whole chronological thing, while it is a good arguing point with "educated" jw's I've always considered it a moot point, if we 'are not to know the day or the hour'

As an earlier poster mentioned about the two elders vs the one elder. Very good point. If you can contine to "study" one on one, that would be the best of a bad situation. Elders in pairs, will always tow the company line, but if you can converse with them one on one, some amazing revelations may be made. Elders when conversing with a suspected apostate, can always call you a liar, if their own comments are brought to scrutiny, so use good judgement here, and preserve the confidence.

Re the 'jumping from scripture to scripture'. What a crock. The WTBTS has a copyright on that I'm sure.

As Blondie mentioned, the James book is the only publication to do a line by line study. Everything else....all publications, all talk outlines, all rehearsed door to door presentations, are rife with scriptures that are pulled out from any book of the bible, OT mixed with NT, and occasionally they will use a different translation to prove their point, so that line of reasoning was culled form the septic field.

Keep your chin up. You have good Coaches, and a large cheering section in your corner.

xjw be one too !

rocketman

The Pharisees were the ones that said the common people could not understand God's Word.

Good quote and point made Blondie. The WTS and its elders sound an awfully lot like the Pharisees, don't they? They constantly tell people that the Bible cannot be understood by the common person.

ellderwho

scholar,

I apologize for the poor understanding of your organization. What I stated in my last post is very close if not exactly what was given to me by the elder I study with. He's not a 'light weight" elder. (educated in law and elder since '71)

Either your understanding is poor, or the elder I study with is poor.

Futhermore you've created a perplexing issue for myself. Explain to me how I as a human can evoke Gods holy spirit from scripture all by myself ?

Show me in scripture, from my sinful state, on my own made up mind can decide, Gee, I think I'll call upon Jehovah and make him listen to me.

"This is why I have said to you, No one can come to me unless it is granted by the father. Jn 6:65b NWT

"just as he chose us in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without belmish before him in love" Eph. 1:4 NWT

'There is no one that has any insight, there is no one that seeks for God." Ro.3:11 NWT

Scholar, Are you implying by your post that these scriptures cited should not apply to me?

Thank you in advance for you reply

Update on study with Elder....

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