Update on study with Elder.... (page 2)

Shutterbug

He said the bible is a very complicated book and and its clear I cannot understand it on my own

Be very suspicous when someone implies you can't understand something without their help. In the first place he is saying you are dumb. In the second place he is saying "trust me". "Come into my parlor said the spider to the fly. " Every cult that ever existed has used language similar the the above quote. Bug

City Fan

Gamaliel - Looking at scholar's posts tonight I think he's been hitting the bottle!

mustang

Shotgun,

You need to get "two-itis".

What is "two-itis"? If TWO "blackbirds" show up at your door, you are SICK. Don't talk or say anything with a second one present. They use TWO to "make a case" against you. Their rules, remember?

Also, don't discuss anything of a "commital" nature over the phone. A second "blackbird" might be on another line listening for you to entrap yourself. They are definitely feeling out your "doctrinal loyalty".

(A "blackbird" is a suited up eLDER, who is "looking for someone to devour".)

You definitely should get a case of "CO-itis".

Mustang

Special K

Hey Shotgun,

My concerns too... are if there are two elders who come to visit you..

Each one will be trying to impress the other .. in their own way.. and try to put the squeeze on you.

If there are two and you don't want to be squeezed in this way you may have to use

Theocratic Warfare...if they start to accuse you need to Deny..(if your not ready to be disfellowshipped yet)

I have doubts, I have doubts, I have doubts.

I dont' recall that....

I have no memory of that...

It just doesn't seem familiar to me....

You just might want to save those focused skills (as you have definitely shown when conversing with the one elder).. for another round.. when you have only one elder to talk to..

They send two .. so they can give equal witness to your attitude and compliance.

Shields UP!!!!

Special K

scholar

Gamaliel

For your information I am proud both as a Christian and a scholar to be identified with the Bible chronology that has for so long been part of our tradition. In my view it has stood the test of time despite the pleadings of higher criticism that is espoused by Jonsson, SDA's, and higher critics. There is simply not one iota of evidence to refute this chronology and as you were a person who claims to have once believed in this chronology then on what intellectual basis can you claim any integrity.

For this reason people like Raymond Franz, Carl Jonsson and others for many years taught and believed in the society/s view of chronology. how is it that that some thing once believed to be true can now be rconciled to error. Were these supposedly intelligent people duped, were they fooled ? What new intellectual apparatus now convinces that truth once believed is now untruth. When one become converted as a Witness then one is admonished to embrace and be nourished in faith so this is the path that Christians traverse in faith. Afterall, we are not talking science but theology so the argument about new discoveries of knowledge as in scientific inquiry does not follow. Faith must always take precedence over knowledge in Christian discipleship. I believe that Christians who have rejected truth and now follow error cannot be trusted and their credibility is torn to shreds.

scholar

BA MA Studies in Religion

shotgun

Very interesting comments Scholar

I'm not sure where you stand...on gods side or mans. Take a look at your last comment and say it out loud and consider Jesus warned us not to become enslaved to the traditions of men.

You said

For your information I am proud both as a Christian and a scholar to be identified with the Bible chronology that has for so long been part of our tradition.

When you say there is no proof to dispute the WT claim it makes me think maybe you have not looked at anything but WT publication because that has been the only place where I find backing for the dates. But I'm learning dates are not important, they weren't important to Jesus or any of his first century followers and they shouldn't be to us either. Truth and love sets true followers apart.

As far as the elder and C.O visit goes I think I feel the flu coming on.

reubenfine

shotgun

Nice work. You conducted the study. Hang in there, friend. I am very impressed at how you handled yourself!

To scholar:

I'm not sure where you got your degree. I only have an AA from Phoenix College. However, please be advised that "society/s" should be spelled "society's," "some thing" is actually spelled "something," "how is it" should be "How is it," there is no space before a question mark, there should be two spaces after a period, "When one become" should be "When one beomes," etc. If you're going to claim to have an MA then simple punctuation should not be a problem, unless what you're doing is satire, which I suspect.

Reuben Fine of the Satire Alert Class

setfreefinally

What happens when you change the names around a little

Were these supposedly intelligent people duped, were they fooled ? What new intellectual apparatus now convinces that truth once believed is now untruth. When one become converted as a Seventh Day Adventist then one is admonished to embrace and be nourished in faith so this is the path that Christians traverse in faith. Afterall, we are not talking science but theology so the argument about new discoveries of knowledge as in scientific inquiry does not follow. Faith in the Seventh Day Adventists must always take precedence over knowledge in Christian discipleship. I believe that Seventh Day Adventists who have rejected truth and now follow error cannot be trusted and their credibility is torn to shreds.

scholar

See how ridiculous it sounds when you change the names Scholar?

You also wrote:

Faith must always take precedence over knowledge

So if you find errors in something your church teaches you should just have faith that what it teaches is true anyway? What good is faith without at least some knowledge to go along with it.

.John 17: 3

3

This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ

SFF

micheal

how is it that that some thing once believed to be true can now be rconciled to error.

Just because someone, yes imperfect HUMANS, which does include the governing body "believes" something to be true, does not nessecarily make it truth. What these and many other men did was dig deeper to see if these things were so, yes much like the boreans did and found them to be false. At one time I thought the moon was made of cheese, but through observation and study I found this to be false. So just because someone believes something it doesn't mean they always have to believe it especially when evidence prooves otherwise.

scholar

shotgun

You are quite wrong in assuming that in connection with chronology that I am only familiar with WT materials. In fact I have had a keen interest in chronology for some thirty years and have a large number of journal articles and standard reference books on chronology including editions of Edwin Thiele and Carl Jonsson.

scholar BA MA Studies in Religion

Update on study with Elder....

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