What’s up with the modern Nation of Israel? (page 2)

minimus

There is no chosen people. However there are a lot if excuses for anti Semitic behavior.

Carmichael

minimus:

There is no chosen people.

This is basically the view of all Jews, religious and secular, outside of the Orthodox religion.

The Conservative, Reform and Reconstructive Jewish denominations all acknowledge that the idea that the Jews are "chosen" is merely an ancient view that most ancient cultures held regarding their place with their own deities. There were no flags, no national anthems, just deities and religion to show national patriotism in those days in the various cultures regardless if you were Jewish, Greek, Roman, whatever.

Modern Jews embrace critical scholarship regarding their religion (Conservation, Reform, Reconstructionist, Humanist), but the Orthodox generally reject it with great distrust, even hatred. This is why the critical view that Jews are actually chosen or special among nations is no longer taught in non-Orthodox Jewish religions. This may also explain why the Orthodox don't allow other Jews into Israel. ("If you don't believe we are special, you don't belong on our land!")

Critical-thinking religious Jews tend to view God less as a Person and more as ineffable. It is not uncommon for rabbis from all four of the more liberal Jewish religions to have this transcendent view, with God being less the "being that hears and answers prayers, rewarding good and punishing evil," and more the concept of Good and Power among the Jews.

Fanatics are the problem, unfortunately. Critical thinking tends to allow for the welcoming of women as rabbis, LGBT Jews, atheists, and agnostics to create and find their own ways among the Jewish people that are just as valid--and these things "just aren't allowed" with the Orthodox.

Unfortunately, as you've mentioned, too many people see only the fanatical behavior, blame it on all the Jews (Orthodox are the minority) and the anti-Semitic behavior gets directed at a Jewish majority that doesn't fit the "excuses" for the hatred.

silentbuddha

However there are a lot if excuses for anti Semitic behavior

This statement is true but on the flip side people are often very quick to label anyone who has any issue with Israeli policy as anti-semetic.

I encourage people who have this grand view of the country to visit. I spent a decent period of time thier in the mid 2000's for work along with a few colleagues.

Ultimately, it was not a very nice place to be for me and another colleague and the others were the ones who noticed. We went to a number of historic items and ultimately some of it was nice, while other areas were not what I expected.

It was similar to going to Greece except the people were far less social and unwelcoming. Which is weird from a group of people whose existence was full of discrimination and oppression.

Anna Marina

The 1600s - Manasseh ben Israel

Manasseh was most profoundly interested in Messianic problems, being convinced, for example, of the Davidic origin of the Abravanel family, from which his own wife was descended. He was full of cabalistic opinions, though he was careful not to expound them in those of his works that were written in modern languages and intended to be read by Gentiles. In particular, he was convinced that the restoration to the Holy Land could not take place until the Jews had spread into and inhabited every part of the world. In 1644 he came in contact with Antonio de Montesinos (Aaron Levi), who convinced him that the North-American Indians were the Lost Ten Tribes. He appears to have directed his attention to the countries in Europe where Jews were not permitted to live, trusting that by obtaining their admission the coming of the Messiah would be accelerated. He entered into correspondence with Christina, Queen of Sweden, ostensibly regarding matters of Hebrew learning, but probably with the design of getting her help in obtaining for the Jews admission into Sweden. But his chief attention was directed to securing the readmission of Jews into England, with many leading theologians of which country he was in active correspondence on this point

WTWizard

Seems that anyone that thinks other than that israel can do nothing wrong, and that all other nations in conflict with them are in the wrong gets the ultimate punishment. Matters not that israel is trying to steal Palestine and all the surrounding nations, that they start major wars and get us involved, they attack innocent beings and blame other nations for it, and so on. And including how they blatantly attacked the USS Liberty in 1967 and blamed Egypt for it. All to facilitate getting everyone on board with having their masters (the reptilians) taking full control of this planet.

silentbuddha

Who are these reptilians you speak of...

LoveUniHateExams

I largely agree with Cofty's comments.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel has LBGT rights (including annual Gay Pride parades), it has political parties Israeli citizens can vote for, it also has made many contributions to science (check out how many Nobel Prize winners Israel has; also, check out how many winners are Jewish).

Israel is the world's only Jewish state. But it also has Israeli Arabs ('Palestinians') in the Knesset, too.

On the other hand, Israel does do bad things. The land grab in the West Bank is appalling.

I also feel sorry for ordinary Palestinians, re how the wider Arab World has treated them. A few decades ago, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon went to war with Israel (the Arab-Israeli War), in an attempt to wipe the country out. The Arab coalition lost that war and seems to have thrown Palestinians under the bus. Not nice.

slimboyfat

Israel should grant full rights to Palestinian citizens, otherwise it’s only a democracy for half the people. Israelis are worried that if they do that then they may become a minority in parliament, and frankly it is possible that will happen. In most cases European settlers have come to outnumber the indigenous populations of areas they have colonised: America, Australia and New Zealand for example. In those countries there is no fear of granting the colonised people citizenship and voting rights because they are a small minority. On the other hand sometimes settlers do remain a minority in a colonised state: such as in South Africa and Bolivia for example. In that situation there are two choices: maintain an apartheid system in order to preserve the dominance of the settler minority (as in apartheid South Africa) or grant all people full citizenship and let democratic power fall where it may (as South Africa and Bolivia now try to achieve). In the long run denying citizenship to a segment of population is unsustainable.

LoveUniHateExams

Israel should grant full rights to Palestinian citizens - Palestinians living within Israel do have full rights, as far as I'm aware.

JoenB75

Yes Israel is a mixed bag and lead by zionistists, which are dangerous people. But they are Indeed also surrounded by dangerous people. I feel sorry for those Christians who feel they have to involve themselves in middle eastern politics. Most Preterists see no modern biblical revelance to that nation. Some however do believe that God will regather the Jews at some point which is probably biblical ☺️

What’s up with the modern Nation of Israel?

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