"I'm As Mad as Hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" (First Principles)

by Terry 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    I always like Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future. Of course, the problem with any utopia is that human nature tends to focus on the self and material/physical things and therefor make said utopia unobtainable.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    DEMOCRACY: Two wolves and a sheep voting on 'what's for lunch

    Yep , kind of like a husband and wife debating what the family is to do, eventually one of them is successful and the rest of the family is forced to go along, an effected equilibrium of good and the not so good.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    DEMOCRACY: Two wolves and a sheep voting on 'what's for lunch' -ah yes, aka 'the tyranny of the majority' stance.

    Except that isn't how it always is.

    Here in the UK, former PM David Cameron passed the same-sex marriage bill without asking the UK electorate to vote one way or the other in a referendum on it.

    This is fine, because why should the tyranny of the majority get to decide how consenting adults live their lives?

    Democracy is the best thing we have.

    Ken Livingstone (a spiv, chancer and deranged commie) has gone on record saying that 'if voting changed anything, parliament would abolish it'.

    Well, this isn't quite true (see Brexit and the 2019 general election).

  • Terry
    Terry
    I'm still hoping that you might begin to even hint at an alternative Terry.

    _____

    Cofty -
    Think of it this way:

    We all die. What's the alternative? Resurrection to heaven or paradise?
    You are calling for the role of RELIGION which is to create an alternative to reality itself.

    That escape /alternative is, as Willy Wonka sang, "Pure Imagination."

    There IS NO ALTERNATIVE to reality!
    Now there is pragmatism for you.

    Quack medicine cures are an alternative to chemotherapy and when
    you are desperate and dying --why wouldn't you try coffee enemas?

    Seriously Cofty ...
    Getting a small group to agree on something is easy peasy.
    But it is all those "other" small groups which spoil the party.

    Liberal vs Conservative
    House of Commons vs Parliament
    Democrat >Social Justice Democrat
    Republican > Tea Party
    Judaism >Zionist
    Christian >Catholic >Protestant > Orthodox > Cults
    Islam >Sunni > Shia > Wahabi
    and don't forget:

    • Sunni Hanafi.
    • Sunni Maliki.
    • Sunni Shafi'i.
    • Sunni Hanbali.
    • Shi'i Imāmī (followers of the Ja'fari jurisprudence)
    • Shi'i Zaydi.
    • Khariji Ibadi.
    • Sunni Ẓāhirī

      Bolshevik / Mensheviks / Monarchy
      ...
    • And the beat goes on ...
      ______

      THE VERY BEST THING a Western Democracy can hope for is a slow
      rot into corruption by the Oligarchy.
      Well - it is here!
      Now what?

      Enough common people must arise in an insurrection to overthrow that Power Cabal.
      In doing it - the economy will crash.

      Is that really an ALTERNATIVE? Sure but burning the barn to get rid of rats
      is bad for the environment :)

      ALTERNATIVES aren't as beautiful as make-believe solutions.

      The current model in the U.S.A. is fake elections.
      ______________
    Hold your breath
    Make a wish count to three
    Come with me and you'll be
    In a world of pure imagination
    Take a look and you'll see
    Into your imagination
    We'll begin with a spin
    Traveling in the world of my creation
    What we'll see will defy explanation
    If you want to view paradise
    Simply look around and view it
    Anything you want to, do it
    Wanna change the world?
    There's nothing to it
    There is no life I know
    To compare with pure imagination
    Living there, you'll be free
    If you truly wish to be


  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    I support your thinking Terry

    In regards to the American political system right now , Trump and his chosen administration have been an Autocratic Oligarchy, where the rich business people in the country are getting the most advantages to his policies.

    Oh that's right he is one those rich business people and the people who pay for his private resorts as well.

    It might be a case of the rich helping the rich so that they can sustain being the rich.

  • cofty
    cofty
    You are calling for the role of RELIGION which is to create an alternative to reality itself.

    No I'm not calling for anything. I think liberal democracy is as good as it gets or ever will be.

    I have still not got the first clue what your answer is Terry.

    I think you could condense this entire thread into three words - 'democracy is imperfect'.

    ...

  • Terry
    Terry

    cofty: I think you could condense this entire thread into three words - 'democracy is imperfect'.
    _____

    Democracy in America is corrupt. That's a wee bit more precise and alarming.
    The 'ho-hum' malaise is also part of the emergency.
    Rigged elections, false media reporting, and the buy-out of the political establishment (by the Oligarchy) requires action on the part of the constituency.

    All over the world, a despised and displaced middle class has resorted
    to bizarre, flailing choices (Trump and Brexit, for instance) and the rift
    between the 'basket of deplorables' and the Elite is an erupting pustule of
    of volcanic heat and no light.

    Not as pithy as your synopsis, Cofty - but more accurate.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Brexit is not bizarre or 'flailing'. It was a rational decision to leave a misguided supranational political project. It was massively supported by the working class. The middle class largely voted remain. The political establishment was defeated by the masses, not just by the vote but by three years of the elite trying, and failing, to reverse the popular vote.

    Liberal democracy 1 - 0 Political Elite

    But what about my question. Since you have contempt for democracy, how do we get to this state that you call 'how things ought to be', and what would that state look like?

  • Terry
    Terry

    cofty:
    Since you have contempt for democracy, how do we get to this state that you call 'how things ought to be', and what would that state look like?
    _____


    Wrong.
    I have contempt for CORRUPTION of Democracy in the same way bedbugs in Luxury Hotels is unacceptable.
    I think you are disingenuously misreading because I've been excruciatingly clear.

    Democracy with fair elections, neutral Media, and the absence of money (i.e. oligarch puppeteers) works great because THE PEOPLE can access reform and credible information to analyze what sort of leadership and policies they are asking for.

    There is a movie embodying the spirit of what I'm saying.
    Watch the movie and see what I mean by "ought to be".
    Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jit3YhGx5pU


    **https://brokelyn.com/welcome-to-hotel-bedbugs/

  • cofty
    cofty

    Me - 'Since you have contempt for democracy, how do we get to this state that you call 'how things ought to be', and what would that state look like?'

    Terry - 'Wrong. I have contempt for CORRUPTION of Democracy ... I think you are disingenuously misreading because I've been excruciatingly clear.'

    <sarcasm>Well I can't imagine where that misunderstanding came from</sarcasm>

    • As far as secular politics and democratic elections, I don't see them as "real" but only a sop to masses
    • DEMOCRACY: Two wolves and a sheep voting on 'what's for lunch'
    • THE VERY BEST THING a Western Democracy can hope for is a slow rot into corruption by the Oligarchy.

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