Hi "Black wolf"
as you can see all over the world we wonder about you ...
You dropped a « small» bomb to your father ....and what ...???
He didnt jump all over the place calling you « devil» .........
Just quiet .....he said ....i will see ..................................( he knows you ‘re right of course )
I am sure he is ALREADY awake . ( or on the way to )
His slow reaction proves it . He is feed up of this circus i am sure !!
Imo deep inside very deep deep inside he thinks « she is clever ! she is my girl !»
But of course he will not tell you by words .its too hard. He is trapped too .
But i am sure he is proud of you already .
YOU are taking the Power . to say Yes or No !
The big problem is your mother .
Dont argue with her about thoses topics ( 1914 , overlapstuff , ARC ...) its useless ...
Losing time ; energy and finishing with tears and screams ............
Useless ....
She is on the Cult-autopilot . and maybe forever . my mother too .
I know well this kind of story .
But dont go drown your soul in this dirty swimming pool .
( maybe its not water inside ? its only the tears of the ones who got baptised the years before ? yes ....................i am a poet sometimes ........)
YOU have the powerr ( sorry i send some " oldies ") but Patti knows well about Jw stuff . Ask her . Abso
https://youtu.be/pPR-HyGj2d0
I'm getting baptized
by BlackWolf 150 Replies latest jw friends
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Absolutesbeginners
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defender of truth
Hi BlackWolf.
I think you are very brave. I did not have the guts to stand up to my parents in the way you are doing now. Trust me, getting baptised will not make your life any easier in regards to your family. Not in the long term, anyway.
More 'privileges and opportunities' open up to you once you get baptised. Especially if you are a male. (Sorry if I have missed you saying if you are male, I have only just come across your post and thought I could help.) You will be pushed and pressured to do more more more, it will never end believe me. Being unbaptized is as easy as it gets, until you can fade and be free at last, obviously.
I said I have too many doubts ( whether this is gods organization, governing body, 1914, overlapping generation ). He said we would study these topics over the next few weeks and then I can make my decision.
Anybody have any advice on how I can easily disprove these topics without sounding like an apostate?
This is my big opportunity to possibly wake up my dad!!
First of all, helping your dad 'wake up' is likely not a very realistic goal at this point. Don't try to do too much at once.
If you don't want to come across as 'apostate', just don't argue with him or debate doctrine. It will likely be fruitless anyway.
Don't try to 'disprove' anything. Let HIM PROVE TO YOU that JW doctrine is correct, from the Bible.
Like so many bible studies out there right now wasting JW's time and going nowhere (from a JW point of view I mean, people not attending meetings and 'progressing' are wasting time), you have the RIGHT to QUESTION everything that doesn't make sense to you, and you have every right to not accept the explanations offered. Just make sure to do it respectfully: "I'm afraid I just can't see where the Scripture says that (whatever the Watchtower claims it is saying)."
Maybe you could just keep saying "I'm sorry, but I just don't understand how/why... *Insert doubt here*." (For example, ''..don't understand why if the first century governing body told everyone where to go and what to do, why is there only one example in the Bible where all the older men came together to discuss a doctrine, in what was likely a large group of men?"
The term "governing body" is 'loaded language' as it never appears in the Scriptures and so has unique application within the pages of the Watchtower. How does the Watchtower justify a Governing Body when the term does not exist in the Bible? This is by reference to the issue of circumcision as discussed in Acts chapter 15. This is the sole Bible example of brothers convening to establish doctrine.
On this occasion, it cannot be said that the decision was made by an established governing body. Acts 15:2 says:
"… they arranged for Paul and Barnabas and some others of them to go up to the apostles and older men in Jerusalem regarding this dispute."
Rather than showing the existence of a small number of 12 leaders being referred to as a governing body, Acts describes a large gathering. This was comprised of the apostles, older men (elders), Paul and Barnabas, who were travelling missionaries, and others. This large group combined to decide on an important issue affecting the local congregations.
The history of the Apostle Paul also shows that there was no centralized governing body directing the early Christians. After Paul's conversion, he did not convene with a governing body or go to Jerusalem to receive an assignment. Rather, he immediately embarked on his missionary work under direction of the Holy Spirit. Paul did not make his first trip to Jerusalem until three years after his conversion, and even then he did not meet with a group of leaders, but just with Peter and James.
That is only an example, remember.
Or maybe say something like: "The current generation understanding just doesn't make sense to me right now, and I really feel that I must make the truth my own. I cannot teach others something when I don't feel that it makes sense to me."
Generally speaking, be polite and respectful, and let HIM try to convince YOU. He won't be able to. He may even find that his reasoning comes up short..
Then you will be at a stalemate. Others may be able to advise you from there onwards.
All the best. :)
P.s. Here are a few more links that may help you.
www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/organization.php
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Dreamerdude
BlackWolf, you are amazing. Stay strong and stay calm. You will make it through this.
Thousands of children and teenagers are facing the same pressure as you right now. The WT is hitting your generation with double barrels these last two weeks before the RC starts next Friday. It's despicable.
You have gotten some great advice already. Rather that try to criticize doctrine, I agree with some who have urged you to emphasize the parent daughter bond. Reassure them that you love and respect them.
Regarding baptism, it might be best if you use the current study articles to your advantage. I can assure you you parents are studying them extra carefully this week, looking at ways to "encourage" you, like they did last week. You need to study it even harder than they do, so you can convince them that you have given it serious thought and that you know you are not ready. It is easier to buy a few months than to buy two years.
Tell them you read the article and found there is a ton of suggested reading and you need time to fully digest this rich spiritual food from the Slave. Ask them to let you spend Saturday in deep personal study, so you can ponder this decision, which the most important decision of your entity life. Be really serious. They might suggest that you stay home from service to do it. If so, it could give you a breather. There is also plenty of material there to help you show that you are not ready for baptism this summer.
To keep you parents from flipping into cult mode, stay loving and respectful, and avoid anything that could remotely sound apostate. If you dad insists on studying with you, do not argue with him. Put the burden on him to explain things. The toughest and most indefensible doctrine is overlapping generations. There is no way a generation can last 120 years. If you can find a way to do so respectfully, ask how long your great grand parents lived. That's four generations.
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dubstepped
You've already pointed out that there are certain things you have doubts about, and that's good. However, he's going to come full bore with JW reasoning on a bunch of things. In the end, baptism is about head knowledge but also the heart. All he is attempting to address is the head knowledge part. Typical of JW's because nobody can make you feel anything. I think that you are so freaking brave and we're all cheering for you. Do what you can with the advice from others. In the end, you aren't ready in your heart and it isn't a matter of gathering facts and answering questions. You just aren't old enough to make the commitment. You aren't ready maturity wise, as far as they need to know. Some people meet the person they would be great with in a marriage when they're young but they just aren't ready for the commitment. I hope that intellectually you can beat this back, but JW's have answers for everything even if the answer is to "wait on Jehovah" or some similar crap. Keep us posted. We've got your back.
Did your parents become JW's later in life? If so, they had a chance to learn and grow as a person before finding "the Truth", they should understand on some level that being your own person helps you to make mature decisions. Your brain isn't even fully formed until you're in your late twenties. Jesus was baptized at 30. You have to be allowed to do things on your own time. After all, if your parents had been visited with "the Truth" earlier on in life they may not have been ready for it, but you don't just get one chance in life. This isn't your one chance to get baptized. You have many years ahead of you. Maybe you can reason with your parents on this note somewhat. If they were visited by JW's earlier in life and weren't ready, then no amount of pushing would make them ready. In fact, it would have pushed them away and made them less likely to listen when they were ready. All you are doing is asking for the same consideration. Forcing you into something because intellectually you know it is "the Truth" (as far as they're concerned) doesn't make you emotionally ready. A young man or woman can have sex much earlier in life than they're ready. Merely having some part of an equation doesn't make you ready.
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Nathan Natas
You will be making a promise to an entity that DOES NOT EXIST.
Don't mean a damn thing.
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FayeDunaway
BW you were so very brave.
It will be tough to stick to only 'non apostate' knowledge in sharing your 'doubts' to your father. How can you talk about the earlier dates before 1914, if witnesses cover over them and only apostates know that stuff these days? This is tricky. Sending you a PM.
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OnTheWayOut
While I like the thoughts of Slimboyfat on page 12, your family won't let you fade away without pressuring you toward baptism. They think they are literally saving you.
You have already chosen a path of resistancecthat includes doubting the doctrines. Great. I like how Defender of Truth says it on page 13:
"Generally speaking, be polite and respectful, and let HIM try to convince YOU. He won't be able to. He may even find that his reasoning comes up short.."
You can brush up with people here and at jwfact.com. But don't be an expert like you have been reading outside materials. Simply end with how you just aren't sure enough to fully accept the things said.
1914- the math of using 360-day years to apply a rule from various scriptures about a-day-for-a-year. Then they had to change the definition of "generation" to keep that date. That's as deep as you need to go to say, "I'm just not ready." Throw in, "How did you feel when they changed the meaning of generation?" If he gives you a standard statement of blind trust, just say how you are not there yet.
You have done so well. Remember your ultimate goal is to keep these family members in your life and you will do fine.
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FayeDunaway
That's a good point OTWO, focus on the interpretation of the generation teaching oh so conveniently changing so that they could keep their prophecy alive, just in time, every time they changed it. Anyone could observe this, you didn't have to be an apostate to see what they were doing. -
JustMe2
It was suggested that you bring up the Australian royal commission, but it seems likely that if you do that your parents will suspect you of doing outside research. As OTWO said, "Don't be an expert like you have been reading outside materials." -
KiddingMe
Very brave BlackWolf. There's lots of good advice in this thread. I hope the best for you. Keep coming back asking questions and/or venting if you need to while working through this.