Response to "The Flood is Real, Because ..."

by Simon 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Simon
    Simon

    I remember one of the flowchart responses to people questioning the biblical flood was something along the lines that "every culture has a flood story".

    Of course, nearly everywhere has flooded at one time or another and we know there are minor floods and then there are the 1-in-1000 year kind of weather event, that tend to get a mention (anyone from the UK will still talk about the summer of '76, and that's probably nothing in comparison to a decent flood).

    But the inference is that the flood must be real, because every culture has a flood story.

    The best response is "now do dragons".

    Because apparently, nearly every culture also has a dragon legend.

    Does it mean dragons exist? Some desperate JW may show their ignorance by suggesting that man lived at the same time as Dinosaurs and they are what the stories were based on. Fun fact: Stegosaurus was a fossil when T-Rex was alive for longer than it's been since T-Rex has been a fossil to us - we're talking OLD, and no overlap (ignore the map in the cover of the old green bible).

    Do JWs still even bother trying to defend the cray-cray aesop-fable kind of OT beliefs?

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/dragon-legends

  • Smiles
    Smiles

    No overlapping generations of the stegosaurus class & T-rex class...

    If Carl Sagan compared notes with David Splane.

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007

    I realised there are flood legends before the bible in many cultures which means Noah is invented and did not exist....it's a copy of an older story.

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    good point with the dragons, ...

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    The Flood did happen...it just didn't happen as the author of Genesis wrote it. Much of Genesis was plagiarized from the Sumerian tales of Gilgamesh. Not just a flood, but also a snake that at a magic fruit from a tree before Gilgamesh could get to it.

  • pistolpete
    pistolpete

    The writer of Noah's flood was familiar with a few animals like a horse, a dog, a mule, a camel, and a few others. That's why all the animals could fit in the Ark----according to HIS IMAGINATION.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Scientific Evidence
    - Today two miles of water covering two-thirds of Earth, enough to overtop the early lower mountains.
    - An average of more than a mile deep of sedimentary layers on the continents.
    - Trillions of dead things (i.e., hard-to-form fossils) laid down by water in strata all over graveyard Earth.
    - The documented Permian extinction event destroyed 90% of all multicellular marine species.
    - A documented genetic bottleneck for man and 90% of all animals far more recent than a million years ago.
    - While NASA presumes there may have been a near global flood on virtually bone-dry Mars, secularists ignore the sufficient water in our own two-mile deep oceans which could easily cover the Earth (with lower pre-flood mountains).
    - All major mountain ranges have marine fossils atop them including on Everest, the Rockies, etc., (excepting volcanoes of course), of fish, clams, marine mammals, sea lilies, even whales high in the Andes, etc.
    - The general pattern of fossil progression (see below) matches flood burial from the Precambrian layer's seabed bottom-dwelling creatures like trilobites up through the Jurassic and higher layer birds.
    - Dinosaur soft tissue still exists preserving T. rex blood cells, blood vessels, and a dozen proteins from a dozen different kinds of dinosaurs and countless other organisms.

    - Carbon 14 everywhere it's not supposed to be, with significant amounts of short-lived 14c, in quantities far above the least count (margin of error) of our state-of-the-art AMS equipment (accelerator mass spectrometry) being consistently measured in diamonds, marble, mosasaur, fossilized wood, natural gas, coal, oil, and dinosaur fossils (with the claimed bacterial contamination, according to the journal Nature Communications, getting its carbon 14 strictly from the bone).
    - There's mostly left-handed amino acids in partially fossilized organisms (not yet decayed to a 50/50 right-to-left ratio), for example, in chert and dinosaur eggshells, and undoubtedly, throughout the fossil record! (Hey, that's another rsr.org/prediction!) So, the three-fold argument is incredibly powerful, dinosaur soft tissue, with mostly left-handed amino acids, loaded with short-lived carbon 14.
    - Amber contains marine organisms including even some pieces entombing crustaceans and many others trapping creatures that live underwater or far out at sea and yet the conifer tree resin solidifies only in air.
    - Anthropologists have documented recollections of an ancient flood from hundreds of tribal, ethnic, and national peoples with uncanny similarities including the saving of man and animals in a vessel, whereas if humanity did not share an ancient flood motif, many would use that as evidence against the deluge.
    - Archaeologists have documented evidence that human technological advancement, such as the invention of bows-and-arrows and symbolic signaling, occurred not in a single region (as though men were just evolving such capabilities) but convergently in very different places incuding even "within the tropical rainforests of Asia."
    - Stratigraphic layers of sediments hundreds and even thousands of feet thick often extend regionally and some are even continental in scope covering tens of thousands of square miles and more.
    - The 300 feet thick Coconino sandstone covering 200,000 square miles in the U.S. southwest is claimed to originate at least a thousand miles to the east and north, with a half-million measurements of water current direction indicating west and southwest flowing water, allegedly for millions of years, but with no conceivable westward transcontinental river system capable of explaining such drainage.
    - The purity of many sedimentary layers indicate rapid deposition with limestone, for example, going from at least 50% calcium carbonate for the geologist's requirement for a rock to be considered limestone, to economic interests beginning at 80%, with the mining industry's standards for "low purity" at 85 and "high purity" at 97%. (See also a whale fossil in highly pure diatomaceous earth.)
    - Stratigraphic layers around the world have boundaries between them, called flat gaps, most extensively and marvelously exposed in the Grand Canyon, that characteristically show no evidence of what should be millions of years of relentless erosion but are instead massively parallel.
    - Limestone deposits would poison the Earth with CO2 unless the fountains of the great deep brought up those minerals.
    - Rivers are losing their roles as the carvers of the world's largest canyons, as the journal Science reported for example, the Tsangpo Gorge, the world's deepest canyon, and even longer than the Grand Canyon, was not carved by the Yarlung Tsangpo River as long claimed but quickly eroded after a rapid uplift.
    - Massive and lengthy submarine canyons, some with tributary systems and near vertical walls as deep as 15,000 feet below sea level, cannot be carved by the oceans' slow marine currents or submarine landslides, and have no workable mechanism to carve them other than rapid drain off of floodwaters from the continents.
    - Off the charts energy levels caused past geologic catastrophism, dwarfing by six orders of magnitude modern phenomenon, comparing for example the 36 cubic miles of magma from the largest eruption of the last few thousand years with the lava fields from earlier history (during and shortly after the global flood) that produced from thousands to millions of cubic miles of magma.
    - Many recent studies contradict Out-of-Africa and the human evolution story including footprints in Crete, a skull from China, a baby in Alaska, two teeth found in northern Europe, and blue eyes developing as recently as 6,000 years ago; and some instead support the post-flood Out-of-Babel origin of civilization including the direction of migration indicated by a thousand years of ancient Egyptian mummy DNA, and the oldest language in India dated as appearing only 4,500 years ago.
    - Human DNA studies show a worldwide genetic bottleneck including mitochondrial DNA (passed only from mothers) highlighting Noah's three daughters-in-law (and before them, a mtEve from whom all human beings have descended and in "a mere 6,000 years" reports the journal Science when calculating from actual measured mutation rates).
    - The Y chromosome distribution pattern supports a single radiation of human beings across the Earth, as do Mitochondrial migration studies, into unpopulated territories (with a full third of the chromosome unrelated to chimps, with shockingly little variation among men, and all going back to Y-chromosomal Adam from whom every human being has descended).
    - Only a couple hundred generations were necessary to produce humanity's genetic diversity, as per various studies including in the journal Nature regarding protein-coding variants.
    - Genetic entropy, as presented in a 2018 lecture at the NIH (National Institutes of Health), ensures that mutations will drive all species extinct so quickly that mathematically, life cannot survive through deep time.
    - The world's crops originated near Mt. Ararat as per a 2004 paper in the journal Science, "The wild ancestors of the seven ‘founder crops’ harvested by the world’s first farmers have all been traced to the region of southeastern Turkey..." And see the 2000 Cradle of Agriculture also in Science.
    - Millions of polystrate fossils of many kinds including upright trees, schools of perch, tadpoles, and jellyfish, vertical leaves, mesosaur, whale in diatoms, a school of whales, delicate spines, nautiloids in allegedly slow-forming limestone, countless three-dimensional trilobites, dinosaur footprints deforming rock layers, each documenting organisms being buried by successive layers of varying geographic extent or buried in homogenous layers like limestone or diatomaceous rock claimed to form as slow as an inch in a thousand years.
    - Anthropology documents a worldwide population bottleneck not only by recollection of a flood, as described above, with common features such as mankind and the animals being saved in a vessel, but also of matters as diverse as marriage, the seven day week, wearing clothes, and ritual divine appeasement often by animal sacrifice, along with lesser but also widespread practices such as measuring with a cubit and accounts of dragons.
    - Flood advocates are able to make stunning scientific predictions, contrary to the expectations of those who reject the flood (as at rsr.org/predictions).

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known
    According to data from the U.S. Geological Survey, the amount of water in the earth's atmosphere could not possibly cover the earth.[11] In fact:
    One estimate of the volume of water in the atmosphere at any one time is about 3,100 cubic miles (mi3) or 12,900 cubic kilometers (km3). That may sound like a lot, but it is only about 0.001 percent of the total Earth's water volume of about 332,500,000 mi3 (1,385,000,000 km3)
    If all of the water in the atmosphere rained down at once, it would only cover the ground to a depth of 2.5 centimeters, about 1 inch.
    Additionally, because only 1.7% of the earth's water is stored underground,[12] there is not nearly enough water in groundwater storage beneath the earth's surface to account for the amount of water necessary to flood the entire earth to the extent described in the Bible.
    Simply put: there is not enough water in Earth's atmosphere to raise the ocean's levels over an inch, much less to cover Mt. Ararat with water from 40 days of rain. There is simply not that much water in the system.

    https://bibleinterp.arizona.edu/articles/flood357903

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL9eo9QaJb4

    The Genesis flood story doesn't hold water.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    According to data from the U.S. Geological Survey, the amount of water in the earth's atmosphere could not possibly cover the earth.

    Not necessary. The "fountains of the deep" were broken. In other words, I believe there were vast oceans under the ground that burst open and flooded the planet.


  • waton
    waton
    The Genesis flood story doesn't hold water.

    not true, it does. water covered the tallest mountains, even Everest, rain fell at a rate of 10 meters an hour.

    these were all miracles, science fiction stories of the times they were written in. Even today, fiction and fantasy stories beat science coverage by a wide margin.

    do not be a spoil sport. when listening to an elder, or BG member talk, just remember, he believes in the talking snake, water over everest and a 10 story ark towering above it, held together by dowels.

    that will give you perspective. fiction is alive and well today.

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