Do you still believe in God? (page 3)

cobweb

The God of the Hebrew Bible is like an abusive husband. God didn't want Israel to do well without him or be independent of him and punished it when it tried.

Amos Chapter 4

6 “I gave you empty stomachs in every city and lack of bread in every town, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD.

7 “I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up.

8 People staggered from town to town for water but did not get enough to drink, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD.

9 “Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards, destroying them with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD.

10 “I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with the sword, along with your captured horses. I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD.

11 “I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire, yet you have not returned to me,” declares the LORD.

12 “Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel, and because I will do this to you, Israel, prepare to meet your God.”

13 He who forms the mountains, who creates the wind, and who reveals his thoughts to mankind, who turns dawn to darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth— the LORD God Almighty is his name.

rebelfighter

I have 2 questions for you to think about, I am not looking for answers:

If God had created Religion how many would there honestly be?

Who wrote the Bible and how do you really know that it is the word of God? Do you really think a loving and caring God would want all the hate and fighting that is in the Old Testament?

punkofnice

I no longer believe in god. I cannot see any evidence for such a creature. I refer to Mr Sagan:-

“A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage.”

Suppose … I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you’d want to check it out, see for yourself….

“Show me,” you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle—but no dragon.

“Where’s the dragon?” you ask.

“Oh, she’s right here,” I reply, waving vaguely. “I neglected to mention that she’s an invisible dragon.”

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon’s footprints.

“Good idea,” I say, “but this dragon floats in the air.”

Then you’ll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

“Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless.”

You’ll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

“Good idea, except she’s an incorporeal dragon and the paint won’t stick.”

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won’t work.

Now, what’s the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there’s no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it is true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I’m asking you do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

The only thing you’ve really learned from my insistence that there’s a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head. You’d wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me. The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind. But then why am I taking it so seriously? Maybe I need help. At the least, maybe I’ve seriously underestimated human fallibility….

Now another scenario: Suppose it’s not just me. Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you’re pretty sure don’t know each other, all tell you they have dragons in their garages—but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive. All of us admit we’re disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence. None of us is a lunatic. We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on. I’d rather it not be true, I tell you. But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren’t myths after all…

Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported. But they’re never made when a skeptic is looking. An alternative explanation presents itself: On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked. Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon’s fiery breath. But again, other possibilities exist. We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons. Such “evidence”—no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it—is far from compelling. Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.

—Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Anders Andersen

Which God(s)?

Unless someone presents credible evidence that their specific God exists and presents evidence (not claims) for all the properties this God supposedly has, I do not believe in any gods.

So far I noticed believers apparently only present arguments why their (or any) God could or might exist, or something along the lines of "you can only believe it if you first believe it". Thanks, but no thanks.

And yes, this is the complete opposite of what I believed to be true for most of my life.

jacobm

If I were you, I would read books on both side of the spectrum of belief. Get both sides of the opinion,

The book 'I don't have enough faith to be an atheist' was amazing.

Then pick up a well known atheist book, maybe something from a well known atheist.

Trust me, a forum won't get you anywhere. You have to set aside emotion for this topic.

2+2=5

I gave the last comment from nicolaou 1 like but only becuase I couldn't give it 10000 likes.

Acts5v29

nicolaou,

evil-twisted mentality.

?

lriddle80

I believe in God! I have seen him work in my life. Call it coincidence if you'd like. And, to be trite, if I die believing in a God that didn't exist, I lived with hope, joy, purpose, and adventure. That doesn't seem too bad. Have you read any CS Lewis books?

KateWild

I pray to my milk everyday. The answer is always yes, no or wait.

Seriously though I do believe in a creator, but I don't think he cares about us,

Kate xx

Acts5v29

Good afternoon Iriddle80,

I think we'd both admit there is something of a fear of hearing God being mentioned - not fear of Him, but of enticing others into vulnerability again. I'm sure we can both appreciate that - but it would be nice if people could see that God is not at fault, but the horrible religions. There's room enough here for all reasonable sides.

Do you still believe in God?

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