Are Religious People Happier?

by jp1692 45 Replies latest members private

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  flipper

  JP- Great thread ! I read several pages of your essay and I totally agree that a person can be spiritual without being " religious " . I'm probably one of the most irreligious people you might meet - however I have a deep spirituality that allows me to think with an open mind with critical thinking in analyzing things. Something most organized religious people are not allowed to do because they are boxed in with too many rules, " you can do this, but you can't do that " which promotes a black and white mentality - it's either this or that - without considering that there are hundreds if not thousands of gray areas in life !

  I get my spirituality from walking in the mountains, near rivers, streams, playing music, writing and performing music, enjoying the company of my wife, my adult son, good friends, and just waking up each day to see what good things might develop or can I create good things to happen ? I try to learn from everything and everybody I come across each day. If we open our eyes and peel back the layers out in the real world, there's always something to learn and ways we can express our love to others each and every day. Kind of how I see things. Organized religion tends to limit people- but open eyed and open hearted spirituality and love have no limits. Not saying we should be gullible and get used or taken, we have to use critical thinking , but expect the best unless there's evidence to the contrary, then make smart decisions
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  David_Jay

  My name is Charles Dunn. I am David’s friend.

  
  

  He left very upset to his synagogue tonight. For the past two days he has been posting feverishly on this site after an absence on it for some time. I was hoping he would never go back as it makes him upset. David has some challenges, which he has told me he has shared with this site for the first time tonight.

  I have finally got him to agree to stop coming on this site. Whatever it is you folks do to him, it’s not good.

  David is a highly intelligent, successful individual and professional. He has spent his life in community projects on a national and international level. At 50 he has much to show for it. He is also on the autism spectrum, highly functioning, what people used to call having Asperger's syndrome.

  People on the spectrum can become obsessive. People like him are highly logical and rational. They can see things others can’t, especially when people are lying to themselves. So they can be a little too blunt with us and say things to us we don’t want to hear. That is David. It frustrates him that others don’t like to hear the truth. He doesn’t this.

  I apologize if his bluntness has upset anyone. That is his main flaw. He doesn’t realize when he shouldn’t point out another’s problem. Normally people gloss over another’s faults and just move on. David expects people to appreciate being corrected. He enjoys being told where he made a mistake and fixing himself, but you better be right when you do this otherwise he will correct you about your correction.

  But I’ve been reading what he’s been writing for the past two days too. And I’ve been reading through this site. I’m sorry for all the hurt you folks have gone through as Jehovah’s Witnesses. I recall David’s own experiences. The hurt shows.

  However, there is a lot of unnecessary hate that comes through. A lot. And I hope some of you do something for it because it shows that you need healing.

  The reason I got David to promise to never return is because the way his comments about religion gets him treated by some of you here. It get him more than mocked. It him and his words treated with hateful disrespect.

  I am an atheist. I have no need for religion. But that type of speech is very, very wrong. I know hurt from your experience as a Jehovah’s Witness is at the basis for most of it, but you direct it at a person and his culture. His religion of Judaism is tied to a people, so every word you say about his religion is about his people and culture. I would never do that. Reading some of your words here is definitely a sign that there is a lack of connection with propriety and social responsibility.

  
  

  My main concern in David. He doesn’t understand that some of you are being hateful towards him because he’s the easiest and closest thing to hate now that you are out of your cult. But I do. So I am taking him away. And he’s not coming back.

  I wish you the best. I hope some of you heal and realize there’s more to being an atheist than hating and mocking religion and religious people.

  I will post this in two of the threads he had open tonight to make sure all is settled.
• 

  jp1692

  Charles, it sounds like you are a good friend for David to have.

  I don’t know anything about any other threads David has posted on but no one on this thread has in any way mocked him or his religious beliefs. Neither has any one expressed being upset by him nor have they made any hateful comments.

  A couple of us disagreed with one thing he said, he took it personally and that clearly set him off.

  Please tell David, when he is better, that I wish him well.

  JP
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  jp1692

  Flipper: I'm probably one of the most irreligious people you might meet - however I have a deep spirituality that allows me to think with an open mind with critical thinking in analyzing things. Something most organized religious people are not allowed to do because they are boxed in with too many rules.

  Great comments! I appreciate that you emphasize the importance of having an open-mind while not being gullible, which is of course tempered by developing our critical thinking skills.

  Thank you too for sharing your personal recipe for spirituality. I am familiar with the area near where you live. It is one of our favorite places, my wife and I have been there a few times and we just love it!

  Flipper: I get my spirituality from walking in the mountains, near rivers, streams, playing music, writing and performing music, enjoying the company of my wife, my adult son, good friends, and just waking up each day to see what good things might develop or can I create good things to happen

  Appreciating nature, and life in general, is certainly a good way to be spiritual, but not religious (SBNR).
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  flipper

  JP= Yeah, my wife and I feel pretty lucky to live up in our mountain area ! Really beautiful. If you've been up in our area before send me a PM and come visit sometime ! We'd love to have you folks up on our property ! About two thirds of an acre and we have a lake nearby with great views of a mountain canyon from our deck. Let's BBQ sometime ! The invite is there . Just let me know and I'll PM you our contact info. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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  Vanderhoven7

  depends how one defines religious. Those who come to the aid of others such as widows and orphans, I suppose would be happier than those who help only themselves.
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  Brokeback Watchtower

  Happiness depends on you reaching your highest potential unshackled by religious and governmental indoctrination to be part of herd mentality more easily governed, people who rise out of the herd mentality are more likely to be happier than those that blindly follow the rules that govern the herd. This in turn leads to envying the one no longer part of the herd by those stuck in the herd mentality and so opposition is experienced by the free thinker from the herd but all in all still the more desirable course for those that stick with it and know themselves better than the one is part of the herd ever could because of giving oneself over to a implanted personality from government & religion and not your own.
  
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  Brokeback Watchtower

  The will to power is the driving force of the psyche therefore moving towards one's highest potential give the highest dopamine release in the brain which is pleasurable since this is what our nature uses get us to do certain things.
  
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  jp1692

  Vanderhoven: depends how one defines religious.

  Perhaps. In my essay I used this definition from the National Alliance of Mental Health:

  • Religion is an organized, community-based system of beliefs.

  Vanderhoven: Those who come to the aid of others such as widows and orphans, I suppose would be happier than those who help only themselves.

  I would agree, but again: one need not be associated with any particular religion or even be religious to come to the aid of others.

  This is in fact my personal takeaway from researching this subject: religions can, and often do, provide us with things that are necessary for human happiness: community, a sense of belonging, purpose and meaning.

  But we can find all of those things without belonging to a religion or having any particular religious beliefs. It takes work--religions have it all "ready made" for us--but it can be done and done without any of the negatives that come along with many, maybe even most, religions.

  Don't even get me started on the huge negatives associated with destructive cults!
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  jp1692

  BBW: Happiness depends on you reaching your highest potential

  This is an interesting point. I think that "reaching your highest potential" is an important and necessary part of self-actualization and fulfillment, but does that guarantee our personal happiness? I'm not so sure. They are no doubt linked and/or correlated. I'll have to give this some further thought.

  Thanks for bringing it up.

  BBW: People who rise out of the herd mentality are more likely to be happier than those that blindly follow the rules that govern the herd.

  I really, really want this to be true, but I don't think it is, at least not necessarily so as a natural and inevitable consequence and result of leaving the herd.

  I think it depends on two things:

  1. Our particular mental and emotional make-up and,
  2. The character of the particular herd to which we once belonged.

  Some people are clearly very happy to be part of a group and be told what to do. Some of us are more individualistic. We are just made that way. It's in our DNA.

  Also, many groups are pretty benign. We are and always have been social animals. We all need to belong, to be part of something larger than ourselves. If the group fulfills that need without squashing our identity, then it's a good fit.

  On the other hand, and clearly the case for those of us that have left a harmful, destructive cult such as JWs, our need to be ourself overrides the benefits of that particular herd, one in which any alleged benefits are vastly outweighed by the gross spiritual and emotional harm that cults do to us.

  BTW, I appreciate the reference to Nietzsche. I don't completely agree with all of his ideas about power and our relationship to it, but I do believe that we are generally happier when we feel empowered, which is not the same as feeling "powerful."

  Either way, I do believe that when we feel weak, helpless and powerless, it is difficult--if not actually impossible--to be happy. For me, that is a suffocating, stifling feeling.

  Not too surprisingly, cults deliberately cultivate the victim mentality and a sense of learned helplessness among it's members. That was one of the things which I personally could not stand. It actually drove me crazy!

  It's hard for me to understand, but some people seem to find that same environment safe and secure. We don't all experience our social environments the same way.