Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • GodBeliever
    GodBeliever

    Hi Vanderhoven

    Thank you for sharing your beliefs. I was curious about many religios and I have come in contact with this understandings before.


    "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. .Matthew 24:21‭-‬22. You belief probably is that the earth will burn with literall fire at Jesus's second coming and all Christians will be raptured to heaven. Everyone else will die . Meanwhile God will create another earth, Christians will return, the just und the unjust will be resurrected on that paradise earth for life and judgement. In the end after the thousand years all that will not be faithful will go down in the second death and there will not be few.

    "When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
    and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
    Revelation 20:87-‬10‭, ‬13‭-‬18

    Your beliefs are very similar to Jws, so acussing them of the same things you believe is not fair.
    But we are missing the bigger picture here. The real problem with christianity started with Jesus and the apostles. Not being under the control of the state( the roman empire) christianity was a serious issue and needed to be dealt with. Back then Christians didn't want to have anything to do with the oppressive roman empire. And they found a refuge in the new faith by holding on to Jesus's commandments.
    And Jesus said to them, “Pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Pay to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; respect to whom respect; honor to whom honor.Romans 13:7. "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world."
    John 17:14‭, ‬16 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this purpose I have been born, and for this I have come into the world: to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to My voice.”
    John 18:36‭-‬37.

    The problem was that people worshipped caesar as god too, so he wanted not only what was his, but he wanted what was God's as well. He wanted to be loved by his subjects. It was a big thing to be loved by the masses in roman times. Jesus was seen as a threat. So the persecution of Christians started.

    It didn't work out and christianity couldn't be stopped but grew into a social phenomenon. It was emperor Constantine who came to the idea to make christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire. So it worked. The roman empire through Vatican managed to rule the world for more than 1000 years. It was not until the renaissance when people started to question the right of Vatican to rule under the divine right. (Medici family, philipIV of france, Martin Luther, and king Henry VIII of England and some protestant priests who translated the bible in English.) It was the french revolution who contested the right of kings to rule under divine right as well. All these weakened the catholic church and we live in a time when they almost have not power at all. However, the modern state learned from that and incorporated the Christian religion, so they can have Devine authority over people (soft power).

    In the last century Rutherford came with the idea that the governments of this world are not appointed by God. He together with a few others were imprisoned for sedition. The catholic church was very angry with JWs because they tried contesting their ingenious invention where christianity was incorporated in the state, and they constantly pursued an aggressive action against them. This was when all the trouble for jws started and it not stopped until early sixties when they changed the Romans 13 interpretation. From there on Watchtower made efforts to reconcile with secular leaders. They became state approved religious organisation. They became associated as NGO with the UN, they appointed a representative at OSCE. They convinced most western democracies of their good intentions and they have become widely accepted. It took a bit longer to convince France, but in 2009 even there Watchtower received legal approval.

    What can I say is that everything is about power and control of the state. Who dare to challenge that gets punished. Otherwise nobody cares what someone believes as long as it does not bother Caesar. Probably you don't like Jehovah's witnesses because they believe they are the only ones to be saved. If you are confident with your standing what does it matter that much. If people are honest God can save them just by reading the bible but only with His help.

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    @ Godbeliever: You're right - Constantine hijacked Christianity for political expediency and privatised it. Along came Martin Luther, and Christianity was put on the open market for every Tom, Dick, & Harry speculator who wanted to board the gravy train.

    Christianity became tribal, creating disdain, resentment, & even hatred among Christians worldwide. Prime example, Ireland. Every "tribe" claims to have the truth.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Godbeliever,

    What can I say is that everything is about power and control of the state. Who dare to challenge that gets punished.

    Looking at the Watchtower now:

    Everything is about power and control of the organization run by the evil slave who has written himself into the salvation formula, that denigrates the Bible, elevating himself above scripture, destroying families over extra-biblical commands of men and preaches an unrelatable Jesus and preaches a non-salvivic gospel turning many of their adherents into theocratic deceivers. And whoever challenges this evil slave gets punished.

    If you are confident with your standing what does it matter that much. If people are honest God can save them just by reading the bible but only with His help.

    The gospel is not all about me and my security in Christ. Christians should be earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the saints .... which has nothing to do with the Watchtower Society or it's evil leadership.

    Let's recap

    a. false unrelatable Christ

    b. false non-salvific gospel

    c. false unbiblical religion that denigrates the Bible.

    d. false and evil authority


  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi BoogerMan,

    Christianity became tribal, creating disdain, resentment, & even hatred among Christians worldwide. Prime example, Ireland. Every "tribe" claims to have the truth.

    Yes, that's true of Watchtower religion as well. However, let's not paint all churches with one condemnatory brush. Many churches in the world do not claim special and unique status.; They preach Jesus as Lord and Savior. They don't advertise, "Come to a victorious organization for salvation."

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    @Godbeliever,

    This just posted by Bridget from Az

    How the Faithful Slave denigrates the Bible?

    https://youtu.be/8Oc09wwsvJc

    Apparently reading the Bible without The Faithful Slave's input is not life-giving.

  • GodBeliever
    GodBeliever
    Vanderhoven,

    "Looking at the Watchtower now:

    Everything is about power and control of the organization run by the evil slave who has written himself into the salvation formula, that denigrates the Bible, elevating himself above scripture, destroying families over extra-biblical commands of men and preaches an unrelatable Jesus and preaches a non-salvivic gospel turning many of their adherents into theocratic deceivers. And whoever challenges this evil slave gets punished."

    I agree with some of your statemens. That's why I post here. However, I have different reasons. They started all this deception around 1954. Before that I believe they were a community of Christians that have a clear insight of bible truths. They failed to predict accurately some prophecies because it was not given to humans to know when the end comes. Even some of the apostles believed that Jesus will return in their lifetime but that didn't make them false profets.

    https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/worship-jesus.php

    This denying of Jesus started in 1954. Desfeloshiping started back then as well as many other wrong teachings.

    "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2:1‭-‬3 KJV

    Before 1954 the teachings about Jesus, were different.

    But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ and he begins to beat his fellow slaves, and he eats and drinks with those habitually drunk; then the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect, and at an hour that he does not know, and he will cut him in two and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Matthew 24:48‭-‬51

    Yes, I agree they mistreat their fellow believers and they are rather a high control organisation. This makes them evil slave. It wasn't like that in the beginning.

    No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.2 Thessalonians 2:3‭-‬4‭, ‬8‭-‬12

    "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.1 Corinthians 3:16‭-‬17

    All this facts and prophecies rather approve than disprove that they had the truth.

    The man of sin can only come from amongst Jesus's church like Judah and they enter God's temple. The temple of God is where his church is. Although I do not look up to Watchtower as an organisation, I believe the faithful slave that was chosen by Jesus at his second coming in heaven, used it to preach the truths of the newly established kingdom. It is yet to happen on earth as the Lord's prayer says.

    A lot of what they teach at this moment I believe is false.

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    @ Godbeliever - "I believe the faithful slave that was chosen by Jesus at his second coming in heaven."

    Since "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof," I'd like to ask you what extraordinary evidence convinced you personally that the "faithful slave" of JW's was chosen by Jesus, rather than the LDS 12 Apostles, Archbishop of Canterbury, or the Pope?

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Godbeliever,


    Seems to me that you have started a new religion.

    Yes the disciples had mistaken views but what they didn't do was write them down as required beliefs and disfellowship Christians who did not agree with their dates.

    Let's look for a moment at beliefs that you consider necessary for salvation/Justification. We are looking at absolutely necessary beliefs only.

    You can't be saved if you don't believe:

    a. There is one God who is Almighty

    b. Jesus is this one God's unique Son

    c. Jesus became man, and lived a sinless life.

    d. Jesus died for our (mankind's) sins.

    e. Jesus rose from the dead for our justification.

    f. Jesus invisible second presence began in October 1914

    g. Jesus raised the sleeping saints in the spring of 1918

    h. Jesus rejected all the churches of Christendom in the fall of 1918

    i. Jesus appointed the Faithful Slave in Brooklyn NewYork in 1919.

    j. Joseph Rutherford was one of the appointees.

    My take is that a - e are essential to salvation. The rest are not.

    What is your take?

  • LV101
    LV101

    WT's extraordinary claims are hilarious.😂 I can't stop laughing - what charlatans.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Godbeliever,

    Regarding my last post: JWs must conclude that to be baptized as a Witness and subsequently saved one must believe:

    f. Jesus invisible second presence began in October 1914

    g. Jesus raised the sleeping saints in the spring of 1918

    h. Jesus rejected all the churches of Christendom in the fall of 1918

    i. Jesus appointed the Faithful Slave in Brooklyn NewYork in 1919.

    j. Joseph Rutherford was one of the appointees.

    Now I'm looking forward to your answer to my last post. But while I am waiting your reply, I want to share with you what the Jehovah's Witnesses gospel has to say is essential to salvation and surviving Armageddon and ask you for your thoughts.

    "Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation." WT 11-15-81 p.21

    "To receive everlasting life in the earthly paradise, we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." WT 2-15-83 p.12

    "Bible students...must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Our Kingdom Ministry, Nov, 1990


    Those who do good things for Jesus' "brothers" because these anointed ones are his followers have the hope of surviving "the day of Jehovah."
    (Watchtower, September 15, 1997 p. 17)

    "Yes! genuine Christians are now being gathered into a united brotherhood earth wide. Who are they? They are the Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses..." (Watchtower, July 1, 1994 p. 7)

    "The Scriptures strongly support the conclusion that at Armageddon Jehovah will destroy the peoples of the earth, saving only those who obey his commandments to stand by his organization." (Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993, p. 170)

    "We will be impelled to serve Jehovah loyally with his organization if we remember that there is nowhere else to go for life eternal."
    (Watchtower, November 15, 1992 p. 21 - "Serve Jehovah Loyally"

    "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the "one flock" Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established." (Our Kingdom Ministry, November 1990 p. 1)

    "You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of eternal life." (You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth p.255)

    "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." (Watchtower, September 1, 1989 p. 19)

    "In this way only lovers of God and of his family, his organization, will survive and enter into the cleansed earth that is to be transformed into a glorious Paradise." (Watchtower, December 15, 1982 p. 27 - Clothing Ourselves With Love and Wearing It)

    "Know that all living at Armageddon will be baptized, either with fire for destruction with the wicked or with salvation for life with the theocratic organization." (Watchtower, June 1, 1952 p. 350)


    It seems that, according to the Watchtower gospel, you will be destroyed at Armageddon. Are you nervous?


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