Qualifications of Elders

by iiz2cool 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • undercover
    undercover
    I stand by what I said there are one or two elders who are trained mental health specialists for example -- I could quote others and name congregations but then it would reveal my identity --- again I stand by what I said they are there but very rare -- when I say qualified I mean by worlds standards. They do get looked down upon by other elders it is true.

    Thanks for clarifying. So there are some qualified elders out there. A few. Very few. And you konw they have a hard time dealing with the rest of the elder body, because their "worldly" training tells them one thing, while the other elders and the WTS tells them another. Not an envious position to be in.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    exactly - they (the very few) also get swamped with calls from brothers and sisters needing help which really p------s their wives off

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    My dad was a good elder. He was a good listener, very compassionate, very knowledgeable about the Bible, and he helped a lot of people. (And, yes, it pissed my mother off big time when sisters would call him at all hours of the night.) He did NOT have any formal training as a counselor and didn't get any because he believed God's holy spirit was enough to help him, so for that reason I would not say he was qualified to help people in psychological ways, though he did try. I think an elder should be responsible for SPIRITUAL help ONLY -- if a person has mental or physical or marital problems, they should be referred to a professional who is trained to deal with those matters. If a person has a question about John 1:1, they should go to an elder.

    The mistake (well, one of them) the Witnesses make is assuming that spiritual counseling will solve ALL problems, and it won't. Life doesn't work that way. Some religions have a trained pastoral counselor in their church who I guess is supposed to provide professional counseling with a spiritual bent to it, but the Witnesses will never acknowledge any kind of secular training as beneficial so they will continue to screw up people's lives as long as people look on their personal opinions as Words of God.

    Nina

  • wheres caleb?
    wheres caleb?

    Of all my encounters, I have found only one that I truly respect. He doesn't pretend to be something that he is not, but can be described and is regarded as an excellent teacher of the scriptures.

    I have associated with those described as prominent elders (former CO's) and marveled at their dislike for the ministry. I can remember being with them as they coordinated field service for the sisters and driving around the neighborhood avoiding the work themselves. The sisters knew what was going on and I was embarrassed to be seen with these guys. The sisters were loyal and not concerned about their behavior because criticizing would be wrong. I consider elders to be role players.

    I knew this elder's wife who would comment so proudly about couples going to her husband for marital counsel. Apparently, others bought into their act and were not aware that this elder and his wife were having serious problems. This elder's wife would tell me that she didn't love her husband and comment to others that she wished that she were married to someone else. They both were aware of their problems but were content to play a role in the congregation. I confronted her and asked how she could be so hypocrital in the congregation. She saw nothing wrong with it because the flock has to see him as an outstanding example. Being liars didn't concern them. I confronted this elder and told him that I was aware of the situation. I could have blasted this guy, and he knew it because I noticed his hand shake all the while trying to remain in control. This guy is the PO in the congregation and I knew that the most that would be done was done already. The only ones that respect him are those that he can hide the truth from.

    People like that disgust me because they know nothing of character or true spirituality. But they are allowed to hide behind the scriptures and an organization that gives them convenient excuses.

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Over the past few months 5 different elders have met with me 6 seperate times. On each of these occasions after they left I wrote notes on the visit. The experieence of these elders is a combined total of close to 200years as elders.

    When queried on how the one truth could contradict another later truth I was told by the elder of over 30 years that Jah may use lies and deception to find ones with a good heart condition and weed out ones serving for a date. He was quiet when I told him thats what Russell and Rutherford had done so they must have been the biggest weeds Jah ever saw.

    When I asked them where the society got most of its information from to print in its publications he said the FDS. I asked where they got the information to print that Nimrod married his mother Semiramus and after his death his body was cut up and scattered to various locations...blah ..blah....blah. He didn't know but assured me this was factual. Maybe so but if the bible is all you need to be completely equipped for every good work of what benifit is that info to anyone.

    Another elder when asked about all the doctrinal flip flops said this was because they were mens interpretations of the bible...but they are well meaning men who are trying to please god and do whats right for the Organization. I asked him from what's written in the bible does believing in your cause make it right....the Israelites built a golden calf and worshipped it in the name of Jah the high priest even helped them.

    I have watched elders flounder on well established JW bible issues for several months contradicting both themselves the organization and each other on the very subjects they are really supposed to know. The only time they used the bible was to share Prov 4:18 which I then had them read the whole chapter and relate that the context was Soloman talking to his son not Jah to his followers. If they cannot back up the organization with all of its many ((((truths)))) how could you expect them to make decisions which they have even less experience with.

    Since becoming a father I have learned that highly trained individuals in their respective fields seem to fly by the seat of their pants by times and make life endangering mistakes...doctors rely on their own past experiences to flavour and augment the decisions they face today much like we all do.

    Elders are no different there are good and bad, all their past dealings make them what they are now and I have yet to meet a brain surgeon among them.....some truly care and others are in their positions because they like being in an authoritative position. For the most part I feel bad for most of them because they are in a tough position..they have reached out and accepted a responsibility every Good dub male is supposed to work towards to be approved by Jah. If you don't there's something wrong with you, people whisper and talk why has that brother never reached out...etc. Most have families and secular work and often thier own family situations seem to be worse than the rest of the congregations. I have been in some congregations where the elders each had three or four parts a month besides bookstudies, family studies, field service and congregational issues. No wonder they can't answer a bible question they don't have time to read it. And no matter what they believe in regards to a situation they tow the company line or face chastisement from the elder body or get caught in lies trying to maintain the WT lies.

    One of the main problems I see is that if you have problems and go to an elder for help or to discuss them there is a very good chance he'll take this info and return with more elders to exercise your demons or crucify you...whoops I mean impale you. Because of this I have always found most do not go to elders with their own problems they go to squeal or complain about some other person who has wronged them or farted during the prayer. Hold your nose folks.......thats not incense you smell

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    The mistake (well, one of them) the Witnesses make is assuming that spiritual counseling will solve ALL problems, and it won't. Life doesn't work that way.

    Perfectly put -- you are absolutly correct.

  • Mr Lebowski
    Mr Lebowski

    Lemme see if I can boil down the takeaway in this thread:

    1) Some elders are OK, but it's because they are good men who are taking individual responsibility to try and be of service, not because the system supports them in learning HOW to be of service. (Thanks, Gary)

    2) The system doesn't support them in being excellent, it supports them in protecting the system.

    3) Elders have a high incidence of assholes. The percentage difference compared to the incidence of assholes in the general populace is unknown.

    Any position of power or authority that's accessible without difficult qualifications (long training, schooling, examinations, etc.) will attract weak, insecure people who will act out their inadeqacies through the position. JWs are not unique or special in this regard. This does not lessen the significance of the acts committed or allowed by such an arrangement, but it shouldn't be too surprising.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    That is also quite a good way of putting it and summing up the thread

  • justhuman
    justhuman

    Most of the elders are doing cleaning work or similar jobs...For the WT elders are parts of their machine called WATCHTOWER, and their main job is :

    Keep the rank and file on line

    Send away the apostates

  • fearnotruth22
    fearnotruth22

    Most JW men aspire to be an elder someday. There is a secret cast system in the Christian cong, and a hiearchy and pecking order in Bethel and in the cong. AS with all things in life, people are in it for themselves and so is the postion of elder in the cong. Behind the facade of spiritual shephered is the desire to rule and to be respected and to be greater than the other person. As a fellow JW this is the relationship that exists between the bros. Real love exist betwenn family members and not betwwen felows. An elder is just doing his job as dictated by the Society. He is an agent of the GB or whoever it is that is the ship's cox. For the most part there is loyalty to the org and the rules of memebership more so than love of flock. An elder has the glorified position of spiritual leader and if he is a bethelite he needs to find the way to clevrly have the local elders do all the work. Assisting people in need in the cong and field is hard word and no one is eager to do it, but there is the eagerness for the title. So bros pioneer and so on and seem to show spiritual progrees by comments meeting attendance and the way neccessary to be appointed but motive of these spiritual works is suspect. the attitude and highmindndness of people that serve in a higher position is evident. The personal qualifications to help someone is not needed for the counsel given by elder does not come from the personal wisdom of the elder but through elder letters that outline how to deal with any situation. Hence the counsel and help is not from an indivial elder qualififications, but from the Society. In actuality, although according to Wt requiremenst for elder appointments are said to be based on Bible, individuals that get promoted to the rank of elder having years and years of training in the congrgation being better qualified than the wordly shmoe or the publisher making spiritual progress to manage and handle the societiy's business are only representatives of the WT POLICy and appointed as such and although such appointmensts are based on Bible qualifications does not mean that God has appointed the peson to do his work. The desire to help others is a noble one, thers is a good feeling that comes from assinting others from the snares of drugs, jail, or an early grave and from helping people and young ones into falling into these pits. THe JW movement , everythjing being considered, does provide assistance and hope and training and education and a new start in life for people in need. It must be the case that there arae many JWS that are in it for noble reasons and not in it for themselves totally. Sitting at the meetings, preaching, and all of the JW activities help individuals to solve or cope with personal problems. Although it seems that that it is easirer to become appointed as an elder nowdays and these bros getting appointed seem to be lacking in human qualities, it is only part of the bigger picture of the way the JW movement is reaching out to help people. Look at it this way It is not the singer but the song. All of the evils of the WT conceded, on the other hand people are also helped. not by elder qualities but the JW movement.

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