Interesting about the "baseball baptism" but I've heard Morman's heyday is probably over, also. Many people will always want to belong to a religion for the social interaction, community and their belief in a god. I was sick of hearing a couple of elders muttering how people want to be told what to do -- thus the huge % of people joining Pentecostal religions. Those people aren't going away - it's sad they're members if this is true. Who is more controlling than Watchtower?!
Question for SBF
by Fisherman 192 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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LV101
I don't believe anything they say re/their financials as long as the 7 are living in luxury off of better than ever street in Warwick. There are too many solid members still available to donate and bamboozle and they're fleecing them is successful or more halls would be sold/liquidated. They'll have to give up their delusions of being a huge, successful, religion all over the world like Catholism and accept their place in life.
Clearly, all the downsizing has been an adjustment for their fantasies.
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sparky1
"I don't see the preaching work lasting another 10 years." - Fisherman
Would you or slimboyfat start another topic on this? I have no opinion one way or the other, but I would like to know how people here feel about this. It could make for some interesting observations.
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_Morpheus
Slim.... if they went that route id go back myself
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HappyHappyHappy1914
I've really like this thread. It's nice hearing a lot of differing opinions on the topic, although I think all of us can appreciate how little we ultimately know about the organizations financial situation. I think it is clear, however, that they have a bit of a cash flow problem. Otherwise, they would not be so quickly downsizing. And, for those that still think this is done to "speed up" the work and move more people into the field, you just have to look at the situation with the special pioneers. In many developing areas, special pioneers were the only thing propping up certain congregations/circuits. Once they leave (and they will have to to find work) the growth in many of those areas will decline.
I think we can all agree that there has always been a bit of unnecessary spending in the organization. What are all those people at Bethel even doing? One of the biggest shifts, that will save the organization heaps of case, is the off-side remote bethalite. This is someone who ties in via computer and who supports themselves entirely. The organization has no investment whatsoever. They can, essentially, run this organization this way. Graphic designers, video editors, proofreaders, translators. All this can be done from home.
I do think the numbers will begin to decline, but I don't think it will phase many of the faithful. It can easily be spun into the "end is getting close" and everyone will be excited to be a part of a nice select few.
Another asset that I think we tend to forget is all the older ones in the org who have no kids (or have shunned the ones they have) and are leaving everything to the org. I would guess the org has quite a few life insurance policies coming there way. I wouldn't be surpassed if there is more and more push for some of these more "alternative ways" of donating. I think people also tend to forget how saturated with KHs some of the metropolitan areas can be. Some are just a few blocks away from each other in rather expensive areas. Those can be sold and newer, muliple auditoriium halls can be built. And, if the org was really desperate, they could shorten the meeting times to fit in extra congregations. Can you imagine if the meetings were just an hour?
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_Morpheus
I think a more pressing crisis is the lack of men who are able to be their local area managers. The “elders” really are the only thing propping up the ship.
That unpaid work force of managers spreading the propaganda, setting the tone locally, making sure people engage in self propagandizing by being at meetings and in field service etc etc is the back bone. Without that segment the org folds and they have issues finding people they think are qualified to handle it. In the washington dc area countless congregations are runnig with 3 or 4 elders. They are burning them out. This area is flush with people, if anywhere shouldnt be short handed its here... but here they are, short handed.
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Incognito
I didn't claim $1 or $2 Billion is an infinite amount of money. With all the literature cutbacks, branch closures, reduction or elimination of bethelites, DOs, Missionaries and other cost cutting measures, I do expect that substantial amount of money will now go much farther than it will have prior to when those reductions were implemented.
WT has for many years (I can't say always) had an investment portfolio. Even if Stocks, Bonds etc are donated to WT, unless they are cashed in, they remain an investment holding.
It seems SBF, Fisherman and some others, continue to believe info provided by WT and the GB is always truthful and accurate. I as many, have recognized lies are told or creative accounting is implemented when beneficial to the org.
Consider how a 1 day circuit assembly is claimed to incur a $12K+ expense when held in a tax exempt venue which was built and paid for with money initially donated by the JWs who use it.
Remember, it is only lying when the questioner is entitled to the truth.
Are you, me or most R&F witnesses entitled to know various WT matters such as WT's financial situation, even as those same people are 'encouraged' and expected to donate on an ongoing basis and further pay for any claimed shortfalls?
Consider Jackson's testimony at the ARC. As a man made commission is beneath God and his org, did Jackson consider the ARC was entitled and worthy of truth?
In terms of abuse victims, while no-one can undo past abuses, WT continues to resist taking reasonable steps to prevent or at least reduce future abuse occurrences. WT continues to refuse to appropriately address and correct ineffective and inappropriate policies and procedures which have resulted and continue to result in financial settlements and legal claims against WT.
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Fisherman
It seems SBF, Fisherman and some others, continue to believe info provided by WT
Your theories don't debunk SL claims which at are supported ( or at least justify) by the resulting cutbacks.
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Incognito
It's not my responsibility to debunk anything. I am only suggesting to not be so trusting and accepting of things just because they say it.
One way for WT to support their claims would be to be transparent and publish an audited financial report.
Each congregation is (or at least was) required to post an unaudited monthly financial statement. Congregants can at least then review the posted numbers for themselves.
As only an aural financial report summary was read part way through a CA, there was little for the average r&f JW to review.
No financial reports are even read during a DA/RC.
WT provide no financial reports so there is nothing to verify the now frequent claims as to needing additional donations.
Just because they claim something and behave in a manner which appears to support that position, doesn't necessarily make it so.
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Fisherman
Just because they claim something and behave in a manner which appears to support that position, doesn't necessarily make it so.
Obviously. They could be faking it but I haven't seen any evidence to support this. SBF conclusions are based on financial common sense, SL claims and ongoing wt historical cuts to the preaching and www. So we will see.