Family of Jehovah's Witness who died after refusing blood transfusion can't keep suing doctors (page 4)

Vidiot

I just reread this again.

Jeezus.

There's regular, garden-variety stupid...

...and then there's epic, fatal facepalming, Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-roadkill-eating stupid.

OrphanCrow

vidiot: Jeezus.
There's regular, garden-variety stupid...
...and then there's epic, fatal facepalming, Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-roadkill-eating stupid.

Well, the kind of stupid that is being put on display in this court case is simply Watchtower stupidity. The poor man who lost his daughter simply believed all the crap that he has been told by the WT and their associates. That is all that happened. He believed the WT propaganda. He believed in the 'miracle' of so-called 'bloodless medicine'. He believed that there was some sort of magical team of 'bloodless experts' who would give his daughter all that specialized attention that the noblood people have promised the JWs.

Here is what the JWs are told:

Bloodless surgery has been called the "Gold Standard" because of its known advantages over traditional surgery.

Bloodless surgery techniques involve meticulous study and skill. While a cooperative surgeon, a surgeon who is agreeable to avoid the use of blood products, will practice blood-conserving techniques, that does not mean he/she is qualified to do a bloodless surgery. Even though more than 100,000 surgeons worldwide, including military surgeons, have been trained in this particular area, more bloodless surgery health practitioners are needed to meet the high demand. Training for surgeons, anesthesiologists, perfusionists and nurses are provided by bloodless surgery and medicine centers and some medical device companies.

And this is what the court case revealed:

...Dr. Paynter’s depiction of “bloodless medicine”
grossly mischaracterized the nature of the concept itself, and
would have given the jury a starkly inaccurate understanding of
what it actually entails. As described by Dr. Paynter in his report,
“bloodless medicine” is purportedly a distinct field, for which
medical personnel need to receive specialized training in order to
provide competent, effective care. See Paynter Expert Report at
2-3. In reality, however, “bloodless medicine” requires nothing
of the sort. Rather, as the testimony at trial clearly revealed,
even by [Appellant’s] own expert, all doctors always try to
minimize surgical blood loss and can, and do, capably treat
patients who refuse, for one reason or another, to allow the use
of various blood products during the course of their treatment,
without needing to have some sort of formalized expertise.
There are no specific medical courses or training in “bloodless
medicine” as such knowledge in this area is part and parcel to,
and integrated, into the overall general medical training. See
N.T. 4/21/15 at 66, 94-95 (testimony from Dr. Green);54 N.T.
4/22/15 at 8-9 (testimony from Dr. Daniels);55 Appellant’s
Motion in Limine to Exclude in Part the Appellees’ Expert
Testimony of Arnold W. Cohen, M.D., Ex.Cat 4-6 (“Cohen MIL”)
(Frank expert report). 56 Indeed, even Dr. Prince, Appellant’s
own expert, admitted that not only had he himself never been
specially trained in bloodless medicine, and that such training did
not actually exist. N.T. 4/23/15 at 56-57.

The entity that should be sued in this case is the Watchtower and the bloodless unit itself. They are the ones who misled Mr. Seels into thinking that "bloodless" surgery is superior and that noblood methods are the "golden standard of care".

The responsibility for this medical disaster lies squarely in the WT's corner.

Vidiot

OrphanCrow - "...the Watchtower and the bloodless unit itself. They are the ones who misled Mr. Seels into thinking that 'bloodless' surgery is superior..."

Once again, for the newbies, lurkers, and trolls...

...if you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don't deserve to be defended.

Vidiot

I can honestly say at this point that I'm somewhat torn.

...

On the one hand, seeing the Org steadily dig its own grave (via its increasingly monumental fuckups) is immensely satisfying...

...but on the other hand, the body count the Org has to rack up (via said fuckups) in order to dig said grave is disheartening, to say the least.

TheWonderofYou

This is the decision of the Superior Court of Pennsylvania

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/pa-superior-court/1868129.html

On November 19, 2010, Seels-Davila and her father met with Iris Jiminez, one of the clerks at Hahnemann's Center for Bloodless Medicine. N.T. 4/24/15 at 12-13, 41. After talking with Ms. Jiminez, Seels-Davila signed a form entitled “Hahnemann University Hospital Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery Medical Directive/Release” where she indicated the following:
I, Terri Elaine Seels-Davila ․ request that no blood (whole blood, red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma) be administered to me during this hospitalization. I will accept the use of nonblood [sic] volume expanders (such as dextran, saline, or Ringer's solution or hetastarch) and other nonblood management.
Seels-Davila also indicated on this form that she consented to the use of a cell saver machine, if necessary, for intra-operative blood salvage and, below the signature line, handwrote “I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. No blood.”

problemaddict 2

Crow,

My "grooming" as a younger fellow was done by someone who had such a ridiculous lack of knowledge of medical procedure it was laughable. This is of course maybe 20 years ago now.

Mainly I was pulled in because I was working in the fringes of the medical field at the time (wish i would have had the courage to extend my education and really get into it), and I was someone known for being able to handle sticky or uncomfortable situations. Most of what i was "taught", was how to distrust the medical staff, and make sure they were held accountable for pressuring the friends if it came to that.

I swallowed it hook line and sinker, but I was reproved for something and that put an end to that.

pale.emperor

I remember in my JW days i called on the door of a hematologist. She was polite but very clear that she disagrees with JWs on the blood issue. I remember walking away and saying to my door knocking partner "how can she be a hematologist and not know agree that bloodless surgery is superior?" And we both laughed.

Yeah, me who'd never been to university and taken all my bloodless surgery information from Watchtower magazines. And her, a qualified professional in her field. Who was the fool?

Lee Elder

It is a humbling experience having to admit one has been thoroughly deceived. The average JW labors under so much misinformation it is simply amazing.

OnTheWayOut

OrphanCrow5 days ago5 days ago

On the WayOut: So, they would have otherwise just let the patient die in a regular hospital setting in some horrible way instead of taking the risks of bloodless delivery ....if they better understood the risks that their expert was going to say were withheld from them.

...ummm, I don't think that is what happened. The father of the woman who died was trying to make the claim that the hospital's "bloodless surgery" program was deficient.

Can you explain what you mean by "the risks of 'bloodless delivery'"? What is bloodless delivery?

==================================

I stand by what I said. You read and dissect like legal counsel. Complications turned it into a need for C-section. If they were not concerned about such a thing, they would not have been found to seek bloodless doctors. Despite their efforts, doctors said blood was needed. I (and you) don't know whether the doctors made errors or not, and maybe the bloodless surgery program was inadequate, but what I said stands- they signed off on the risks which are greater in the situation.

I don't need to know everything to know that these people attempted to appease cult rules and that the doctors probably could have overcome the complications (be they doctor-caused or inevitable) by breaking cult rules.

Vidiot

problemaddict 2 - "...Most of what I was 'taught' was how to distrust the medical staff..."

Once again, for the newbies, lurkers, and trolls...

...if you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don't deserve to be defended.

Family of Jehovah's Witness who died after refusing blood transfusion can't keep suing doctors

OrphanCrow5 days ago5 days ago

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