Does the night sky prove the universe is older than 6-7 thousand years old?

by m0nk3y 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Reasoning From The Scriptures, WTB&TS 1989 p. 88 Creation

    Was all physical creation accomplished in just six days sometime within the past 6,000 to 10,000 years?

    The facts disagree with such a conclusion: (1) Light from the Andromeda nebula can be seen on a clear night in the northern hemisphere. It takes about 2,000,000 years for that light to reach the earth, indicating that the universe must be at least millions of years old. (2) End products of radioactive decay in rocks in the earth testify that some rock formations have been undisturbed for billions of years.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    The best place to hide something from a Jehovah's Witness is in the Reasoning book.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    Light does NOT travel at the same speed all the time.

    Agreed. The medium will dictate the speed of light. That's why c is defined as the speed of light in a vacuum.

    Does gravity slow the speed of light? Not that I know of... but it does bend it. A singularity will have the most pronounced effect on light. Light might get yanked into the singularity, but I don't think it slows to a stop.

    I'm going to do some googling on this... I love it.

  • m0nk3y
    m0nk3y

    OH MY GOD garybuss, GOOD WORK!!!

    I'll have to check that one out.

    monk3y

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    elamona, welcome a-board!

    Light does NOT travel at the same speed all the time.

    Correct. It propagates more slowly in non-empty space, and the denser the medium, the slower it propagates.

    Massive stars and large collections of galaxies in "small" areas slow the speed of light.

    Incorrect. The apparent "slowing" of the speed of light in this case is actually only a relativistic effect due to space-time curvature in the presence of gravitational fields. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is based on a Riemannian curvature tensor (a relatively complicated but otherwise purely geometric mathematical expression) coupled with the Lorentz metric (which incorporates the postulate that the speed of light is a universal constant in empty space). The Schwarzchild solution of this tensor quantifies this relativistic "time" effect of light propagating by, or through, such curvatures...but the actual speed of light remains constant.

    As do black holes, which stop light from escaping at all

    Correct, but they don't change the speed of light. What happens is you reach a point where the curvature of space "makes" light travel in a circle (so to speak; technically called a "geodesic" line). This is called the Schwarzchild radius, and was mathematically predicted decades before it was actually observed.

    Gravity affects the speed of light.

    Incorrect.

    I have been collecting all of the APOD's since NASA has been putting them out in 1995 and quite a few are Hubble pics showing the "bowing" or gravitational lensing effect on light in the vicinity of massive gravity fields.

    Perfectly described by the equations above, as based on the constancy of the speed of light in empty space.

    There is another physics lab, in England I think, that has slowed the speed of light to a couple of hundred miles /hr in their lab under artifical conditions.

    What you're referring to here is the speed of light in a quantum-mechanical "super-dense" ultra-low-temperature medium:

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000BAEB1-B2AA-1C6F-84A9809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=2

    This effect has nothing whatsoever to do with the speed of light in empty space.

    I don't intend my comments above to appear harsh (as if directed at you personally), but all the empirical and mathematical evidence to date points to only one conclusion: the speed of light in empty space is a universal constant, and has been so since the beginning of our physical universe. Any "young earth creationist" ideas to the contrary simply fly in the face of all known physical science.

    Craig

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32

    Craig! You rock! Did you just do some research or were those gems stored in your brain?

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Watson, theoretical physics has always been, and still is, one of my favorite studies.

    And you remind me, I should have credited the sources I reviewed for my post above (from my library):

    Gravitation and Cosmology: Principles and Applications of the General Theory of Relativity (Steven Weinberg)

    Introduction to General Relativity (Adler, Bazin, Schiffer)

    Advanced Mechanics (Sanford Groesberg)

    Mathematical Physics (Donald Menzel)

    Applications of Tensor Analysis (A. J. McConnell)

    Space--Time--Matter (Hermann Weyl)

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    He's goodlookin', smart, and wears a uniform. Ladies what more could you want?

    Six~ keep that gun away from Kate class ;)

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism
    The best place to hide something from a Jehovah's Witness is in the Reasoning book.

    Honestly, I don't think they're hiding anything (in this case, anyway). The Dubs are not YECers. Their latest 'scientific' production, the Creator book, endorses the Big Bang, the standard age for the Universe, etc.

  • teejay
    teejay

    >>>> Was all physical creation accomplished in just six days sometime within the past 6,000 to 10,000 years? The facts disagree with such a conclusion... -- garybuss (quoting the Reasoning book)

    Thanks for posting that, Gary. Until I read your post, I was going to post that I'd never read where the JWs said the universe (or even the earth) was only 6/7 thousand years old.

    >>>> The best place to hide something from a Jehovah's Witness is in the Reasoning book.

    Good one! I used to love the Reasoning Book. For JWs, it wasn't a bad piece of literature. We called it the mini Aid book.

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