Want to help my JW friend

by wannahelp 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • wannahelp
    wannahelp

    Hi Everyone,

    I'm new here, and I want to make it clear upfront that I am not, nor have I ever been a JW. In fact, until recently I didn't know much about JW's. But I do have a question that I hope both JW's and ex-JW's will try and answer for me..

    About 10 months ago, I hired a 20 year old to work for me.. I hired him because he seemed very loyal, ethical, sincere, hardworking and honest. All qualities that I admire greatly.

    We became friends, spending time together outside of work. About 6 months ago, he came to me one day and told me that he was a JW, and that he had strayed from his religion. He could not be a friend to me, not because I was a bad person or anything, in fact he admired many of my qualities, but he said that I didn't serve Jehovah, and therefor we couldn't be friends.

    I've never heard of anything like that in my life before.. It was clear that we were already good friends, and now he's telling me because of religion that we couldn't be friends.. It hurt, infuriated me, and insulted me because I have always believed in god, although not a member of any religion, and have always believed that god wants us to love one another, and he brings people together, he certainly doesn't seperate them.

    Although he said he would like to stay and work for me, and he could be friendly, and even socialize with me occaisionally (about once every 6 months) we certainly could not be friends and socialize on a regular basis anymore. Because my personal life philospophy is based on love and friendship, I told him that although I certainly cared for him, and I certainly still considered him a friend no matter what he said, that it was probably best for both of us if he got another job. I even helped him get it, and I stayed in contact with him, telling him that my conscience certainly doesn't say to end a friendship. So, I visited him semi-monthly, helped him in any way I could, and told him I was kinda doing a reverse witnessing to him. I wasn't going to end anything, he had to tell me to stop coming over, calling him, etc.. Of course, he didn't..

    Then I got to thinking, what if he indeed did have the "truth" as he called it. So, I asked him to start a bible study with me. Of course, I do independant research, and so while I was reading his stuff, I was buying books written by ex-witnesses (Thanks Ray Franz among others!) too.. I even told him I was doing so, and although he said he would prefer I didn't, he never even applied pressure for me to stop. I told him that if he has the truth, it should easily be able to answer any questions I can come up with, and will show the apostate's wrong. He agreed.

    All the while, our friendship continued to grow.. He never really did end it.. We continued to email, phone and even visit each other on a regular basis, almost daily, certainly 2-3 times a week... Of course, he'd stop over and give some silly excuse to be here, like his computer wasn't working, and I was the ONLY person he could think of who had a computer with a working internet connection, even though I live about 20 minutes from his house, and 2 houses down from him is a witness friend of his with a computer and internet connection..

    Soon I began to realize that he did not have the truth, and started feeling that he is a lost sole, and felt real pity for him.

    So I started asking him questions that he could not answer, even showing him old Watchtower literature that he couldn't harmonize.

    From all the books I've read, they all basically said that the witness is "programmed" to respond to normal bible questions, but they really don't have to think about the answers.. So, I began asking him questions about his organization, and it obviously bothered him.

    In fact, I thought he was going to end the bible studies at one point, so I told him that if he walks out on me, that it is his fault the friendship ended, and that he and his organization do not have the truth, as truth is never afraid of any question.

    Then a very interesting twist occured in the studies.. I told him that I had read that he was even discouraged from reading the bible chapter and verse without his bible aids. He told me that was not true, so I asked him to stop with the bible aids, and read the bible with me, chapter and verse, starting with Genesis, and going all the way through to Revelation. Although he certainly tried to talk me out of it, he ultimately agreed to it.

    He told me that if I were to mention to anyone that we are reading the bible chapter and verse that they would probably look at me cross-eyed because this is unheard of, that he expects me to continue going to kingdom hall with him on occasion, and that the bible is the final word, and I should stop focusing on the organization, and we'll just read the bible (I agreed to stop asking organizational questions).. He then allowed me to use my own bible (The NIV version) and he is reading his NWT version.

    About 2 weeks ago, he informed me that he has started dating a girl (witness of course).. In fact, he is an elder's son and a ministral servant, and the girl is also an elder's daughter from another congregation..

    I know that he doesn't have the truth, but now I have a crisis of conscience.. I've always felt he hasn't been happy, even soon after he started working for me, you could just tell that he wasn't happy... Well, now I believe I know why, but since I've never been a JW I don't know if he indeed can be happy as a witness or not..

    I certainly don't think he understands real love and friendship, since both are always conditional, and I don't believe love should ever be conditional, and friends certainly should be allowed to help each other in their most trying times, but in his religion, when the friend needs help the most (after he's decided to leave the organization, or committ a grievious sin in their eyes) none of his friends are allowed to talk to him.. I cannot comprehend how that can be love and friendship, but again, I'm not a JW, so I cannot say..

    So, my crisis is do I just sit him down on our next bible study, and say, Look, I know stuff. Here it is, and show him what I know, or should I not do that?

    A.) If I show him, and he can ignore it, I may cause him permanent doubghts, but he may stay a witness, in that case I've now caused him to not even fully believe he has the truth any longer, while still acting as a robot or slave to a fallible organization that claims to be god's appointed channel.

    B.) If I show him, it may cause a major crisis in his mind, and maybe will lead him to do something horrible (Like suicide)

    C.) If he indeed is dating, and does love this girl, maybe that is why I've always thought he wasn't happy, and that was the only reason.. In which case, he can be a happy witness for the rest of his life, and I shouldn't show him any thing.. Let him live his life believing he has the truth..

    D.) If I show him, and he decides to leave, am I possibly causing more harm than good? After all, he'll have to give up his family (He was raised a witness, so all his family are witnesses) not to mention the stress of knowing he's lived a lie for 20 years..??

    My conscience is really twisted, and I feel much sorrow and pity for my friend, but I don't know what to do. I want to free his sole, but then again, I don't even know if it really needs freeing, nor do I know what will happen when and if I show him the information I have, if he'll even listen to me..

    Please, help me to understand the life of a witness so I can make an informed decision.. I don't even care if he decides never to speak to me again, I just want to do what's best for him, and I don't know what that is..

    Any and all Witness's and ex-witnesses I'd love to hear your comments on the matter..

    Thanks for any advice you can offer on the subjust

    Just wannahelp....

  • praying_mantis
    praying_mantis

    I dont know what to tell you. I was baptized at 16...12 years ago. My mother, and 2 aunts are witnesses. I married, then divorced the son of an elder. Doubts flooded into my mind, starting with the blood issue about 5 years ago. I tried to voice them and get some answers, but I was basically branded as a spiritually weak sister that people should avoid contact with. I disassociated myself about a week ago. Since then, I have been looking at all the stuff that I have been told NOT to read. I am seeing things that make me so angry, so sad, and so upset that I can only take it in small doses.

    You are a true friend to the man you described. The only advice I can give is to tread lightly. This is major stuff, especially if he is the son of an elder. There are times when I feel like doing something drastic to myself, because it seems like my entire universe has been tilted off of its axis. You are doing the right thing by coming here for advice. And I am impressed that you read the accounts of ex-JW's before committing yourself to anything. If I had done that at the age of 16, I wouldnt be the emotional mess I am today.

    I know that there will be plenty of people out there who have much better advice regarding this than me. How I wish that I had a friend like you! Stay true to yourself, and I hope you are able to find an answer.

  • Camay
    Camay

    You might want to start with the King James Version check this link.
    Ask him why is scripute taken out of ther JW bible. He doesnt want you
    to read out side of there material because that what they teach him.
    And there bible is corrupt.

    http://users.eggconnect.net/noddy3/dangerous.htm
    http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/kjv/part1-4.html
    http://users.eggconnect.net/noddy3/John%2011.htm
    http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/kjv/part1-4.html

  • wannahelp
    wannahelp

    Hi Mantis,

    I was very moved by your email. Thank you for the reply.

    More importantly, DON'T DO ANYTHING TO YOURSELF.. I can tell by your email that you are a fine, loving person who unfortunatly was deceived by an organization that you thought was showing you the way. There is no sin on your part. The organization is the problem, not you. You have done NOTHING wrong. If you want a friend to talk to, I have a good shoulder!!! .. I'd certainly love to talk to you.. As I said in my email, my personal life phylosophy is love and friendship.. There's always room for more friends... !!!!!

    Also, I suggest you give a call to

    1-800-WHY-1914..

    It's a hotline set up to help JW's who are questioning or leaving the organization.. Give Marylin a call.. I'm not affiliated with it in any way, of course, but I did call them and spoke with Marylin back in December when all this started happening, so I could find out how best I could help my friend, if indeed he needed help.. I thought at one point that he was thinking of suicide himself.

    I hope to hear from you soon, and above all, remember, don't give the organization the pleasure of you doing any harm to yourself in any way.. You are finally free from their bondage!!! You have the last laugh, not them!

    My prayers are with you....

  • XJWBill
    XJWBill

    Wannahelp, your concern for your friend is commendable. However, without questioning your sincerity, I do want to suggest that some of your concern might be a little unhealthy for both of you.

    First of all, you don't say whether you are male or female, or how old you are. Please forgive me if I am wrong, but you do sound in some way a little "jealous" of this organization that your friend has devoted his life to.

    Second, it does sound like you are extremely anxious to "fix" your friend. In my own life experience, it's always been a bad sign when that feeling crops up. I want to suggest that it may be a sign of the desire to control your friend rather than accept him--which is what real friendship is all about.

    Friends allow friends the right to be wrong. Whether you think they are wrong about religion, politics, smoking, drinking, sex, marriage, hairstyles, or window treatments, a real friend, in my book, either agrees with you--or stays discreetly silent about it. (Of course, there are exceptions to this rule in extreme cases, like potential suicide or homicide.)

    Third, it is an immutable law of human nature that you just can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped! In your account as written, I'm not sure I hear that this young man is desperately seeking a way out of his religion. I do seem to hear that YOU are desperately seeking a way to get him out of it.

    The fact is, all our ex-JW bitching and griping aside, it is perfectly possible to live a long and happy life as a Witness, especially if one has many supportive friends and family in the organziation. It was good for me in many ways when I was in it--but I had to come to see for myself that my greater happiness lay elsewhere.

    There are many worse ways to live than the JW's. You admit that your friend is "loyal, ethical, sincere, hardworking, and honest." Is that really so bad?

    As life rolls on, I find it more important to examine closely and sincerely MY OWN true motives than to be continually scrutinizing my friends.

    One of the pleasures of life as a non-JW is relief from the feeling that I, personally, must save the world and everyone in it from taking the wrong course.

    Perhaps I've read you all wrong, and if so, I apologize. These are just my thoughts; others may have better ones to offer. Love your friend and do as you please.

    Bill

    "If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Hey Wanna:

    It's great to see somebody like you earnestly trying to help someone who you percieve to be a lost soul. However i think that you should stop looking at this as a rescue operation. Your friend must decide for himself what he wants to do with his life. If you have discussed everything that you have with him then he already has plenty to chew on. Give him time. He already is rooted into this organization and that is why he is apprehensive about leaving. Despite what he confides in you you should realize that he may be thinking he is leading a double life. Any conscientious witness would. Especially so if he has the qualities you said he does. I know this probably very frustrating to you but think about him and what he must going through. He needs a friend, someone who will show him uconditional love. Just be there whenever he needs you and in due time he'll make a decision that is appropiate to his own circumstances.

    Peace,
    Bigboi

    "..... anyone who ignores everyday reality in order to live up to an ideal will soon discover he had been taught how to destroy himself, not how to preserve himself." The Prince. Niccolo Machiavelli.

  • terraly
    terraly

    Hi,

    I've never been a JW either, so I guess we're kind of in the same boat- except luckily my reason for being here (my girlfriend) has already left the organization. I can't speak as a witness then, but only as one who has had the privilege of being there as one soul winged her way free of the Tower.

    Definitely take it slowly. It's the only way anyway, he won't respond to a frontal attack upon his belief structure, very few people can. You cannot throw all you know at him at once, his brain will almost certainly enter defensive mode and reject it all.

    But... chances are good he will find out the truth about "the truth" one day. If you keep silent and don't say anything he may live a happy, contended, JW-life, but it is also almost certain that he will acquire doubts through some other means- so leaving him alone does not mean he will remain a happy JW.

    My girlfriend describes the wonderful, peaceful feeling she had when she made the decision to disassociate herself. To live as a Witness, if you are at all aware of some of the problems and unloving doctrines (such as the one which threatens your friendship) is to live with doubts, with cognitive dissonance, and with self-reproach for having these doubts.

    The Witnesses believe in a thing called "theocratic war strategies" which basically involve lying to people who don't deserve to know the truth. While this is a terrible ideal to preach, I think we all feel that it's an acceptable- or necessary- strategy at some times.

    But in the end, I think the truth is a necessity, and I think the truth always produces the best results. This may be simply a naive, optimistic hope, but there you have it.

    Your friend deserves to hear the truth- and perhaps that means from you.

    It's the old philosophical debate: live a happy, contended life as a monkey, or a painful, difficult, wonderful life as a human. I think we all have moments when we'd like to be that monkey, but on the whole I come down firmly on the human side of things. Ignorance can be bliss, but living free and true is the wonderful fate of mankind.

    I think you can live a perfectly contented, animal-like existence as a JW. I do not think you can truly live- you can only exist, bearing on until the end of the world, which is coming Very Soon (tm).

    I would wish life for everyone, and not consign anyone to mere existence(1).

    It's not you duty to help your friend. It's not your fault if you can't free him. Everyone must (and does) walk their own spiritual path in this world. Remember that, and remember to be true to yourself and to him, and things will work out.

    Best of luck, and please keep us posted.

    t.
    (1) of the sorry-I-stole-your-line-you-know-who-you-are class

  • terraly
    terraly

    [oops, posted twice]

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Wannahelp,

    My jaw just dropped when I read your post. You have such good insight as to what makes JW's tick, what with "conditional friendship", etc. After all the input here, I am confident you'll proceed in the best manner possible. You know your friend's particular circumstances and personality better than any one of us. But you were smart to check things out here. Best wishes, and let us know how things turn out later, if you wish.

    To the other posters above, I am impressed by all your answers above!! I have nothing more to add. You folks are very thoughtful and well-spoken.

    Gopher

  • zev
    zev

    wannahelp...
    If your a star trek fan you'll appreciate these two words....if not, you'll get the drift...

    Borg Programing.

    Its very tough to undo. I know. I'm being deprogramed at this moment. My crossroads mave met up with me head on. I cannot give a right/wrong answer to you. But you are a kind and loving friend. and your handle really says it all. wannahelp. Thats what being a friend means.

    __
    zev
    Now feeling the pain of sitting on the pickets class.

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