The Great Crowd!

by A Believer 183 Replies latest jw experiences

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  A Believer

  Sanchy their is no temple in heaven.

  22 I did not see a temple in it, for Jehovah* God the Almighty+ is its temple, also the Lamb is.

  
  

  21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth;+ for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away,+and the sea+ is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God+ and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.+ 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.
  
  
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  Sanchy

  Sanchy their is no temple in heaven.
  

  A Believer, the literal temple constructed here on Earth by Solomon was a represenation of the great spiritual temple of jehovah's habitat in the spiritual realm. Here's what even WT's Insight book has to say about it under the Cat "Temple":

  
  

  Jehovah’s Great Spiritual Temple. The tabernacle constructed by Moses and the temples built by Solomon, Zerubbabel, and Herod were only typical, or pictorial. This was shown by the apostle Paul when he wrote that the tabernacle, the basic features of which were included in the later temples, was “a typical representation and a shadow of the heavenly things.” (Heb 8:1-5; see also 1Ki 8:27; Isa 66:1; Ac 7:48; 17:24.) The Christian Greek Scriptures disclose the reality represented by the type. These Scriptures show that the tabernacle and the temples built by Solomon, Zerubbabel, and Herod, along with their features, represented a greater, spiritual temple of Jehovah, “the true tent, which Jehovah put up, and not man.” (Heb 8:2) As revealed by its various features, that spiritual temple is the arrangement for approaching Jehovah in worship on the basis of the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ.—Heb 9:2-10, 23.

  The inspired letter to the Hebrews states that in this spiritual temple the Most Holy is “heaven itself,” the area where the person of God is. (Heb 9:24) Since only the Most Holy is “heaven itself,” then the Holy and the priestly courtyard, as well as their features, must pertain to things on earth, those things having to do with Jesus Christ during his ministry on earth and his followers who are “partakers of the heavenly calling.”—Heb 3:1.

  This spiritual temple is the one John refers to in Revelation. The WT tries to go around this point by claiming that the great crowd is serving on the courtyard of the temple, something that is not true, since the term "naos" as used by John only included the most inner holy areas, and thus it can only refer to the location of Jehovah himself, or heaven.
  
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  steve2

  Sanchy their is no temple in heaven
  

  A Believer has, in one short answer, shown he is bereft of even basic Scriptural knowledge (to say nothing of his misspelling of "there").
  
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  sparky1

  

  I refuse to participate in any thread involving A Believer again. He or she lives in a "reality distortion field" and is not here to discuss anything with an open mind. He or she is here to "preach the Watchtower Gospel" to all the 'heathens' that will take the bait. However, much like an accident on the highway, I just can't look away. For me, it is free entertainment to watch A Believer engage with many of the posters here and still not learn ANYTHING nor capitulate when presented with indisputable facts.
  
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  A Believer

  spiritual temple—the arrangement for pure worship.

  Jehovah’s people on earth worship him in the earthly courtyards of his great spiritual temple.

  22 I did not see a temple in it, for Jehovah* God the Almighty+ is its temple, also the Lamb is.
  
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  evilApostate

  I don't know if someone already said it but, can't you read?

  The very scriptures posted said that the great crowd was "before the throne" and in "heaven". How can this be interpreted to mean on earth?
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  A Believer

  So the spiritual temple is an arrangement for pure worship. And Jehovah is the temple. And naos means the sanctuary. So Jehovah would be with the great crowd.

  21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth;+ for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away,+and the sea+ is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God+ and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.+ 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.

  
  

  Goes along with this scripture. Gods tent is with them and he resides with them. And New Jerusalem is coming down out of heaven. So this shows the crowd isn't in heaven if they saw this. Also scripture says God create the Earth to be inhabited, what would be the point of keeping it in it's new form, cleansed if their was no one to live on it?
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  Sanchy

  A Believer: spiritual temple—the arrangement for pure worship.

  What the WT actually says and I quoted above from the Insight book:

  The inspired letter to the Hebrews states that in this spiritual temple the Most Holy is “heaven itself,” the area where the person of God is.
  

  This most "Most Holy" is the "naos" that John says the Great Crowd is located in. There is no way around it A Believer. The evidence points to them being a heavenly class.

  A Believer: Jehovah’s people on earth worship him in the earthly courtyards of his great spiritual temple

  As stated previously, this is impossible, since "naos" did not include the courtyard of the temple. WT attempts to use this fabricated and incorrect logic to make their interpretation fit scripture.

  
  

  
  
  
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  A Believer

  
  

  evilApostate7 minutes ago

  I don't know if someone already said it but, can't you read?

  The very scriptures posted said that the great crowd was "before the throne" and in "heaven". How can this be interpreted to mean on earth?

  
  

  At Revelation 7:9, the great crowd is not seen as being in heaven. Their “standing before the throne” of God does not require them to be in heaven. They are simply in the sight of God. (Psalm 11:4) The fact that the great crowd, “which no man was able to number,” is not a heavenly class is shown by comparing its unspecified number with what is written at Revelation 7:4-8 and Revelation 14:1-4. There the number taken from the earth to heaven is revealed to be 144,000.
  
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  Sanchy

  what would be the point of keeping it in it's new form, cleansed if their was no one to live on it?

  Who said no one is to live on the Earth? Why must ONLY the great crowd be the ones to live on Earth? You are assuming that this WT teaching has to be correct or otherwise it would not fit with other WT teachings.
  

  If you choose to believe the bible and want to be a Christian, there are a million different explanations out there as to what happens to the Earth long term. It's up to you what you want to believe, the bible is not clear on the matter.

  The more you learn about the bible itself, the more you'll see it's not very clear really about anything, and thus why many don't consider it to be divine at all.