Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast 540 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    So here is my take:

    36. BUT OF THAT DAY AND HOUR KNOWETH NO MAN, NO, NOT THE ANGELS OF HEAVEN, BUT MY FATHER ONLY.

    I believe that this verse and "THAT DAY" signal a change in topic to the second coming (parousia) of Christ. Mt.7: 20-22 Mt.11:22 Jn.5:25,29 Jesus has already explained what would happen to His own generation. Now He contrasts that which would relate to His second coming (parousia) or presence on earth.


    36. BUT OF THAT DAY AND HOUR KNOWETH NO MAN,
    NO, NOT THE ANGELS OF HEAVEN, BUT MY FATHER ONLY.

    37. BUT AS THE DAYS OF NOE WERE, SO SHALL ALSO
    THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE.

    38. FOR AS IN THE DAYS THAT WERE BEFORE THE
    FLOOD THEY WERE EATING AND DRINKING,
    MARRYING AND GIVING IN MARRIAGE, UNTIL THE DAY
    NOE ENTERED INTO THE ARK,

    39. AND KNEW NOT UNTIL THE FLOOD CAME, AND
    TOOK THEM ALL AWAY; SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING
    OF THE SON OF MAN BE.

    40. THEN SHALL TWO BE IN THE FIELD; THE ONE SHALL
    BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT.

    41. TWO WOMEN SHALL BE GRINDING AT THE MILL;
    THE ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT.
    Elaboration - Lu. 17:20 -

    42. WATCH THEREFORE: FOR YE KNOW NOT WHAT
    HOUR YOUR LORD DOTH COME.

    43. BUT KNOW THIS, THAT IF THE GOODMAN OF THE
    HOUSE HAD KNOWN IN WHATWATCH THE THEIF
    WOULD COME, HE WOULD HAVE WATCHED, AND
    WOULD NOT HAVE SUFFERED HIS HOUSE TO BE
    BROKEN UP.

    44. THEREFORE BE YE ALSO READY: FOR IN SUCH AN HOUR AS YE THINK NOT THE SON OF MAN COMETH. Lu.12:42-48

    Our beloved Leola writes

    “The word parousia does not necessarily denote both "an arrival and a consequent presence"; it commonly denoted just the arrival, such as a terminus or an end-point of a time period (such as a state of affairs continuing UNTIL someone arrives). It is trivially easy to find clear examples of this in Greek literature. The parousia itself would then be a sudden change of the situation as opposed to being itself a duration. That is how it is used in the synoptic apocalypse. It is used interchangeably with erkhomai, and is an event that occurs suddenly or unexpectedly. The comparison of the parousia to the Flood of Noah emphasizes the suddenness of the event that will END an ongoing state of affairs. What was arriving to those on the earth was the Flood itself; it wasn't "invisibly present" beforehand. And even if it was, what happened during those years long before the Flood that made the Flood go from "not present" to "present"? Don't you see the problem? "Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left" (v. 40-41). That pertains to the parousia, in analogy with the Flood, and it highlights the suddenness of the event; people would be in the midst of their daily activities when it happens, just as those before the Flood were in the midst of eating, drinking, and so forth. The arrival denoted by the parousia isn't invisible either; " For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. " (v. 27). Sure there would be a presence after this, but it isn't one unremarked upon by the world at large. It was going to be absolutely obvious, with a spectacle in the sky and with a loud trumpet call from the heavens."

    This event then is obviously a future visible and world changing event that all Christians will see and are looking forward to. Hope you are too.

    Vander

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman
    WW 2 was far worse than AD70 to the Jews.

    Not spiritually. 70 marked the end of the Jewish era. Back in 70, they were verified natural Israelites by lineage with documentation to establish tribe, priestly rights, land and inheritance rights and they had Temple and Holy Land. Thereafter, like the northern 10 tribes became the Samaritans, Rabbinical Judaism emerged composed of a people that married converted Gentiles. Are the descendants of the 70 survivors “Jews”—-to God because such practice a form of Judaism ? By what standard is a person a “Jew” because the person practices some form of Judaism and where is God in the equation since Jew in ww2 was about religion and not race? So 70 was the end of the Bible Jews, there was no salvation from Jehovah: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruits.And, “ Look your house is abandoned to you…” Also, God rejected natural Israel and chose an Israel of God with no provision for restoration—the end. We know that 70 was a punishment upon the Jews but were the people of WW2 that you refer to “Jews” to God? So 70 was really the end.

  • waton
    waton

    simple 1914 question ?

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman
    simple 1914 question ?

    537-70=607: 7x=1914 1914 generation = Parousia

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    Interestingly in Luke 21:24 at the Olivette, Jesus refers to the Gentile Times. So there is a connection between the Gentile Times and the Parousia seen here.

    One could erroneously conclude that the trampling of Jerusalem would begin in 70. But, keep in mind that Jerusalem was destroyed once before in 607 and continued under Gentile rule. Amazing that Jesus would allude to the 7x at at Olivette! with the poetic word trampling. It is also amazing that therafter a heavenly Jerusalem is spoken of in the Christian Scriptures that cannot be trampled on because it is not on the earth.

  • waton
    waton

    In Rev. how about" jerusalem" coming down to Earth and the besieged camp of the holy ones ? all in the

    <1914 +( 200-40) + 1000 era?

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Waton,

    Yes, Matthew 24 is not about 1914. But it is about the Governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. See verses 48 - 51.

    I think Marilyn A. has it right when she writes about what JWs are trusting in to survive Armageddon.

    Referring to sincere JWs:Tragically they rely on 8 stumbling bumbling crumbling charlatans too drunk from their own narcissism to protect children let alone a dog. These JWs kept so stressed out trying to keep up with their demands they fail to notice their leaders' stories continue to change.

    Jehovah's Witnesses are indoctrinated to run an endless endurance race without tiring out. They're kept on a hampster wheel as obedient sheep. Is it any wonder then that they do not stop long enough to catch their breath and simply pull back the curtain and see their GB “Wizards" are really just stumbling bumbling crumbling blind little men barking rambling orders.

    Sites to Google:

    Avoidjw-org,

    jwfacts-com,

    “Raymond Franz Archives”,

    “The Witnesses” on Prime Video Channel,

    “WT-HISTORY Michael's Story".

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman
    jerusalem" coming down to Earth

    It is a heavenly entity and not part of the earth at that time. Jesus and the elite that make up the Messianic kingdom and rule from the heavens But the point of Jesus word trampling is Gentile ruling, until the appointment times of the nations when the kingdom was established in the heavens according to Rev which is the allusion in Luke. So, the Olivette refers to the destruction of Jerusalem which happened in 70 and to the end of Gentile Times. If you don’t want to believe that happened in 1914, ok but the Parousia is connected to the end of the Gentile times.

    Judaism rejects the Greek Scriptures and Jesus as playing any role in God’s purpose. The destruction of Jerusalem did not convince them, but we will all see if that is true when the son of man in revealed.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Jammer,

    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    You said that verse 21 applied to the 1914 generation exclusively. But notice the immediate context given this event.

    Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    Note that Jesus, because the unrepeatable great tribulation was coming, instructed Christians to pray that their flight would not be in winter or on a Sabbath day.

    Is that what you are praying? When did you last pray that your flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath day when you flee Jerusalem and head for the mountains beyond Judaea?


  • Jammer
    Jammer

    Fisherman said,

    Not spiritually. 70 marked the end of the Jewish era..... We know that 70 was a punishment upon the Jews but were the people of WW2 that you refer to “Jews” to God? So 70 was really the end.

    The end of the Jewish era - if there is such a thing - didn't end with the kosmos.

    For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world/kosmos to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    I said earlier that there are three different words for world (and 'end') in Mathew 24 that need consideration. In verse 3,

    "...and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

    This word is 'aiōn and 'has an interesting meaning. In this context it is the time period between the first and second advent of Jesus Christ.

    In verse 14 it's the word 'oikoumenē' you can hear it's pronounce here...

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3625/kjv/tr/0-1/

    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    This word is similar to 'eretz in the OT. It often implies an inhabited area, a country, region, or the whole inhabited world. This is the word that would have to be used in verse 21 to even consider the possibility 'THE END' happens in AD70. AND - the fact that the gospel is still being preached debunks an AD 70 fulfilment!

    In verse 21 its the word kosmos.

    "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world/kosmos to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

    Kosmos indicates that this 'tribulation' cis unprecedented and comes upon the entire planet.

    This word implies the entire planet including the heavens. In my view, that word debunks the idea of some sort of 'spiritual tribulation' which isn't implied in the context whatsoever. Tribulation isn't spiritual in any way.

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