Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing? (page 14)

cofty

Your opinion of Pinker's personality could not be less relevant or interesting.

As for the wee tykes on the street who made comments about what they'd like to do to my "fat ass," well, if they're genetically inclined for that kind of behavior - there is a genetic factor behind this kind of behaviour.

This in no way excuses it - evolution is descriptive, not prescriptive.

I've read some of Pinker, but I find his public persona really smarmy and obnoxious. Not quite Richard Dawkins obnoxious - Cofty suggested reading material; he didn't ask you to invite Pinker round for dinner.

unsure

Definitely noticed how quickly debates get heated. I don't get why.

dogisgod

Crofty?????? The Patriarchy is a myth? What are you smoking?

em1913

Tongue is fully in cheek, fellas. Don't get your teeth in a turmoil. I forget that men seem to treat internet forums like war games. Guess there must be a gene for that. Anyone for Stratego?

As for Pinker, some of his linguistic stuff is interesting, but that's about as much of him as I care for. Although he loses me when he suggests there's a genetic basis for grammar. Generations of eighth-grade English teachers stand ready to refute his argument.

cofty

Crofty?????? The Patriarchy is a myth? What are you smoking? - dog

It's Cofty.

What is this thing you call the 'patriarchy'? Despite the shrill slogans of third-wave feminism it does not exist in the western world.

amiable atheist

It's all about appreciating the difference between having a dick versus being a dick.

LoveUniHateExams

@Unsure - Am reading your link now and have already run into issues.

From your article ...

Traditional masculinity, as the APA defines it, refers to masculinity cognitions “that have held sway over large segments of the population, including: anti-femininity (italics mine)

What does this mean?

Does it mean that traditional men don't like femininity in women? Or in other men?

I assume from the context that it means other men.

studies have shown boys are disproportionately more likely to have learning difficulties and behavior problems in school — and men, overrepresented in prisons, are more likely than women to commit violent crimes or be a victim of violent crime - so the study admits men are more likely to commit violent crimes and be the victims of violent crimes. Feminists might want to remember this when they speak about domestic abuse because it puts their claims in context. There is a genetic factor as to why men are more likely to commit violent crime. Men have higher levels of testosterone for a start.

Overall, males are four times more likely to die from suicide than females - so, men are more often the victims of violent crimes than women, are four times more likely to die from suicide, make up approx. 90% of workplace related deaths, and make up more than 90% of the prison population.

Does 'The Patriarchy' even exist?!

If it does, and its aim is to systematically oppress women ... then it's doing a piss-poor job, wouldn't you say? XD

Historically, traditional masculinity comes with a heteronormative assumption, which “may ostracize some gay, bisexual, transgender, and gender-nonconforming individuals from an inherent sense of male identity ... Men from marginalized groups, including ethnic minorities, are also often targets of additional stereotypes - yes, it's true that traditional masculinity regards homosexuality as weird. What this study brushes under the carpet is the fact that homophobia is much more virulent in ethnic minorities than it is among white people, generally speaking.

White-majority countries and societies are much more gay-friendly than other countries and societies.

Traditional masculinity can also be racist. But what this study conveniently ignores is that traditional masculinity can also be racist when ethnic minorities make up the majority.

1. Psychologists strive to recognize that masculinities are constructed based on social, cultural, and contextual norms - AND MASCULINITY IS ALSO CONSTRUCTED BASED ON GENETICS!

3. Psychologists understand the impact of power, privilege, and sexism on the development of boys and men and on their relationships with others - I have an issue with this. It assumes boys are privileged as a class. This is absurd. There are poor boys born to crappy parents living in run-down trailer parks. Such boys (and girls) are not privileged. Conversely, there are rich middle class white, brown and black girls born into affluence. Such girls are privileged.

It seems this report is making the mistake of ignoring the genetics factor. Behaviour is encoded for by genes. Scientists don't know the full picture but it is intellectually dishonest to say that masculinity is based on 'social, cultural and contextual norms' only.

I will read the full report later.

snugglebunny

Historically, traditional masculinity comes with a heteronormative assumption, which “may ostracize some gay, bisexual, transgender, and gender-nonconforming individuals from an inherent sense of male identity ... Men from marginalized groups, including ethnic minorities, are also often targets of additional stereotypes - yes, it's true that traditional masculinity regards homosexuality as weird.

Any idea of what percentage of the population this applies to?

minimus

Good thread, Minimus!👍

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

Share this