Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD

by Sea Breeze 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Ding

  Nothing about calling God "Jehovah" and going door to door inviting people to come to God's organization for salvation?
  
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  Disillusioned JW

  Correction: In my prior post where I said "sounded so quote to a summary" I should have said "sounded so much like a summary". By "If it is true ..." I meant "If Christianity is true ...".

  Ding, that is a good point you made.
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  fulltimestudent

  Disillusioned JW - I read, in a book by the Jewish scholar named Hugh J. Schonfield, that during the intertestamental period the Hellenistic Jews made pious frauds to promote Judaism.

  All true, DJW! That's the point that Sea Breeze missed in his reaction to my post about that document.

  The document being discussed exists, but what evidence exists that the Apology of Aristides was written by him at the time claimed? If we project out minds back and imagine life in that era we would find that life was different, the ways we prove something is genuine today was not possible then,

  G. C. O'Ceallaigh in his review,""Marcianus" Aristides, On the Worship of God," claims to have found evidence that the document started its existence as a "counter attack on polytheists and their religious notions and secondarily, as a defense of the monotheistic worship and the morals of the Jews " by a convert to hellenised Judaism. And then, that document was. "interpolated and “edited” by a Christian writer," in the late 300s CE and re-titled as the Apology of Aristides as a defence of christianity;

  Geza Vermes, a recognised scholar of the Dead Sea Scrolls, (in his 'The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English' points out that similar editing occurred among the cultic group that produced the DDS.
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  Disillusioned JW

  At the moment I am not sure that Hugh J. Schonfield was the source for my information about Hellenistic Jews making pious frauds to promote Judaism, but I did read it in some scholarly book. I read that prior to the start of Christianity the Jews had been very successful in converting Greeks and others to Judaism (though in many cases not becoming full proselytes). I read that at one point 10% of the population of the Roman empire was of the Jewish religion! I read that many Jews added comments to pagan Greek books of various kinds (or to copies of those books made by Jews) that the teachings of Judaism were superior to many of the teachings of the Greeks. I don't recall which specific book it was in which I read about those things however.
  
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  Earnest

  Disillusioned JW : What is your [Sea Breeze/Terry] source for the English translation of Apol. 2? … which manuscript did that source use for the translation?

  Both English translations are by D.M. Kay, Assistant to the Professor of Semitic Languages in the University of Edinburgh, and can be found here. The Syriac manuscript used was that found by J. Rendel Harris in the library of the convent of St Catherine, at the foot of Mount Sinai, in 1889. Harris says in his book on the ms that it was numbered 16 amongst the Syriac MSS of the convent and may be dated to the 7th century.

  Sea Breeze is quite correct to say that there is no question as to the genuineness of the Apology of Aristides, in the sense that Eusebius alludes to it in his Ecclesiastical History and in his Chronicon. However, there is no mention of Aristides before Eusebius, Eusebius does not quote from the Apology (perhaps because he did not possess a copy), and none of the Fathers quote from the Apology either. In other words, we have no evidence of its contents before the 7th century.

  Is it reasonable to believe that the 7th century Syriac translation accurately reflects the original Apology of Aristides, especially in its reference to God coming down from heaven and clothing himself with flesh? In his book on The Apology of Aristides, J. Rendel Harris discusses the differences between the Greek, Syriac and Armenian versions of the Christological passage and points out that it is only the Syriac which contains the phrase “God came down from heaven”. He says:

  The most serious change is that in the Syriac, where the word ‘God’ is inserted as the subject of the verbs which follow. The passage is one which was more likely than any other in the whole piece to tempt later writers to make changes of their own. It is to be noted here the Greek in spite of its additions represents the original Apology much more faithfully than the Syriac does.

  He goes on to say

  The Syriac Version is often loose and inaccurate : it drops a phrase here and there ; and it makes insertions by way of explanation or of supplement, and sometimes in such a way as to convey a wholly false conception of the original.

  When considering the authenticity of sayings attributed to the ante-Nicene Fathers it is safe to say that statements reflecting a post-Nicene Christology should always be treated with caution.
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  Disillusioned JW

  Thanks Earnest for pointing out that there is evidence that the inclusion of the word "God" in the phrase "God came down from heaven" is likely spurious in the Syriac manuscript of the Apology of Aristides.
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  Earnest

  A comparison of The Apology of Aristides in Syriac, Greek and Armenian helps clarify how the interpolation "God came down from heaven" in the Syriac came about.

  Syriac : The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man.

  Greek : Now the Christians trace their origin from the Lord Jesus Christ. And He is acknowledged by the Holy Spirit to be the son of the most high God, who came down from heaven for the salvation of men. And being born of a pure virgin, unbegotten and immaculate, He assumed flesh and revealed himself among men that He might recall them to Himself from their wandering after many gods.

  Armenian : But the Christians are race-reckoned from the Lord Jesus Christ. He is Son of God on high, Who was manifested by the Holy Spirit : from heaven having come down ; and from a Hebrew virgin having been born : having taken his flesh from the virgin, and having been manifested by the nature of this humanity [as] the Son of God.

  When you have different text traditions of a passage it is not too difficult to identify where there have been changes. If the texts on which the Greek and Armenian versions are based originally had "God came down from heaven" there is no reason they would have changed that as it supported their trinitarian theology.