Excellent Conversation At Literature Trolley (page 5)

GrreatTeacher

"Actually, many top scientists are women." That is just too perfect. LMFAO

Well done.

Well, to be fair, the person really wasn't prepared for an Evolution debate, so you had the advantage there. Most don't care to argue the subject, because they don't get trained in the in's and out's of that subject. He was correct in telling you that he is not a Creationist. The Creationists believe that a Creative day was 24 hrs long.

I don't believe in Evolution because I believe that our wonderful planet, and Solar system is so amazing that it couldn't be a matter of chance, it was created by a intelligent designer.

It's not only JW's that believe in Creation that way, but many other intelligent people do as well. If I were there, I think I would have been that sister who stood in the background and didn't participate.

Magnum

Every animal you have ever seen died in agony of predation, parasites, disease, starvation or exposure.

That is one of the things that I never could reconcile with the idea of a loving creator. I am one who is probably far more aware of animal suffering, both natural and caused by man, than most because I spend so much of my life aiding animals and have tried to educate myself on their plight. I have seen unspeakable horror, things that have mentally and emotionally scarred me for life.

Just consider the horror, terror, and brutality that will occur on the plains of Africa on just this one night. Think of the innocent baby animals that will be brutally killed. Think of the all the animals that can never be at ease; they constantly have to look over their shoulders for predators. Think of those that live in misery and itch and are in pain because of parasites. Think of those covered with fleas and ticks, those who have the mange, etc. Think of those that will be eaten alive (happens often).

Animals don't age and die gracefully in the wild. When they start to get old and/or weak and/or sick, they're in trouble.

And it's not just the herbivores that suffer. I've seen lions with their entire lower jaws knocked loose and dangling by skin. I've seen them with their sides ripped open. I've seen hyenas with parts of their faces torn off. It's savage and brutal. It disturbs me greatly.

If you're not aware of the horror, watch some YouTube videos.

Joe Grundy

Quarterback:

I was going to respond to your post but won't, because Cofty will surely be along soon and he can say it better than me.

Only point I'd make re evolution is = it isn't a matter of 'belief', it's a matter of 'acceptance'.

Cheers.

Vidiot

Quarterback - "...our wonderful planet and Solar system is so amazing that it couldn't be a matter of chance..."

Don't kid yourself; it's not that wonderful.

Most of it's kinda scary, actually.

Magnum

Quarterback: I believe that our wonderful planet, and Solar system is so amazing that it couldn't be a matter of chance

I'm one who doesn't know what to believe. I'm open to the possibility that higher beings exist. However, I find your reasoning to be flawed. If the planet and solar system have to have been created, then what about the creator himself? By your line of reasoning, wouldn't he have had to have a creator, too?

And I agree with Vidiot. While I am amazed by the solar system, etc., and I see beauty in such, it's all really brutal, cold, heartless, and dangerous. In the same way, I see beauty in the physical features of the earth and in the biosphere, however, I also see cold, brutal, heartless efficiency where only the most fit survive and horrors and suffering thrive.

steve2

He was correct in telling you that he is not a Creationist. The Creationists believe that a Creative day was 24 hrs long.

Ahem, sorry he was not correct. Although a branch of Creationism has hogged the limelight with its literal interpretation of the Creation days, the label "Creationist" actually refers to anyone who believes in a literal interpretation of the Creation story in Genesis - even those who coat it with pseudo-science.

JWs are Creationists.

They try to squeeze themselves out of this label by "impressing" listeners by stating that each creative day is 1,000 years long. Big deal! LIke that tiny stretch of time within a time frame of millions upon millions of years accounts for scientific findings.

Fact is, they believe in the Biblical creation story. All else is JW nit-picking.

Quarterback

Joe: We are free to accept whatever we want to accept. I know many scientists that don't accept the Evolution theories.

Vidiot: I have great respect for the our earth, and Solar system. Mankind is very limited, oesn't possess the knowledge on how to survive in some environments. I hope that one day we will learn how to do this,

Magnum: My line of reasoning?? I stated that the earth and solar system is evidence of a intelligent designer. Some christians would say that the Creator has always existed, It's hard to wrap our heads and accept that idea. It's something that you need to accept on faith. The Gen account says, "In the beginning, were the heavens and the earth, Then God said....."

Steve: I guess Wikipedea has some interesting explaination in defining Creationism. Iread in there that Fundamental Creationists are those that take the Creation account as literal.

shepherdless

Quarterback - He was correct in telling you that he is not a Creationist. The Creationists believe that a Creative day was 24 hrs long.

No, JW's are creationists. Maybe they aren't "young earth creationists", but they are still creationists by any sensible meaning of the word.

Quarterback - I don't believe in Evolution because I believe that our wonderful planet, and Solar system is so amazing that it couldn't be a matter of chance, it was created by a intelligent designer.

What has the formation of the universe got to do with Evolution? You do realise that most mainstream Christians accept Evolution, even if God/Jehovah created the universe?

Quarterback - It's not only JW's that believe in Creation that way, but many other intelligent people do as well.

The only people who believe in creationism (as opposed to Evolution) are members of fundamentalist christian churches, or Muslim. In fact many practicing Muslims believe evolution occurs.

Further, I suspect the only reason anyone believes in creationism in this day and age, is that they had a childhood indoctrination to that effect. You can't get to a Genesis version of history by logic, deduction or reason.

Quarterback

Shepherdless: JW's do not take the Genesis account literally. When it says the Earth was created in 6 days, a day is not understood to be 24 hrs long. A creative day could be millions of years, This view differs from some Evangelical group.

You do realize that some scientists accept the Creation account when it comes to explain how it all started such as in the Big Bang theory.

I don't think you can get to a version of evolution by logic, deduction or reason. Evolution is theories. It's true that a Childhood indoctrination has contributed to belief in the Creation account. So are family values, morals, and respect for others views

Excellent Conversation At Literature Trolley

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