Sept 15th 2003 Watchtower Page 26-30

by stillajwexelder 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  stillajwexelder

  Just read this article about Martin Luther -- the WTBTS state -- Luther recognized that God's favor cannot be earned. Rather , it is granted to those exercising faith Romans 1:16; 3:23,24,28

  These days I do not go to meetings very often so I do not know what is new light and old -- and have read in R. Franz COC similar material with Ed Dunlap and Commentary on Letter of James.

  This implies salvation can not be earned (i.e. can not earn salvation by doing 100 hours on the Field Service) Does anyone know what current truth is. Is salvation granted by exercising faith or by works (filed service) orr is it the standard get out clause -- Exercising Faith is going on the ministry?
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  wednesday

  both, we cannot earn it, but faith without works is dead, so we must go in FS. We don't deserve salvation, and so they can only say we MAY BE SAVED.

  Actually, we could go visit nurisng homes, feed the poor, any number of things that would qualify as works. Really just displaying the fruitage of God's spirit.
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  ozziepost

  Just read this article about Martin Luther -- the WTBTS state -- Luther recognized that God's favor cannot be earned. Rather , it is granted to those exercising faith Romans 1:16; 3:23,24,28

  Out of one side of the mouth they say one thing, and out of the other say the opposite.

  There is absolutely no doubt that the Dubs have a "works based" faith. In this, they are very similar to the Roman Catholic church, and like them the R&F are held in fear; the Catholics by the fear of hell and the Dubs by the fear of Armageddon. No difference.

  The WTS can claim what it likes but the R&F know that if they don't perform, they're treated as "weak publishers". There is a whole list of things that a Dub needs to "qualify" for, within the borg.

  A dub is only as good as his last report.

  Cheers, Ozzie
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  The Watchtower Society definitely teaches that in order to be saved, Jehovah's Witnesses MUST do "good works".

  They MUST attend all of the Meetings.
  They MUST put in ENOUGH hours out in Field Service.
  They MUST not disobey the Watchtower Society.
  They MUST not have independent thoughts.
  They MUST not take whole Blood Transfusions.
  They MUST not be involved in politics (except possibly maybe voting)

  The list goes on and on.

  Here is a confusing quote from a Watchtower:

  The Watchtower, February 1, 1996 Issue:

  Salvation is a free gift from God. It cannot be earned. Yet it does require effort on our part. If someone offered you a very valuable gift and you did not show enough appreciation to pick it up and take it with you, your lack of gratitude might prompt the giver to present it to someone else. Well, how valuable is the lifeblood of Jesus Christ? It is a free gift, but we must demonstrate deep appreciation for it.

  What does the Bible say about salvation?

  New King James Version:

  Romans 3:21-28:

  21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

  Romans 9:16: knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

  Romans 9:21: I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

  And, as an important thought to keep in mind, the Mosaic Law INCLUDED the commandments to love God and to love your neighbor -- so Paul, in Romans and Galatians, is saying that no one can even be saved by trying to love God and to love your neighbor -- the ONLY way to get saved is by putting all your faith and trust and hope in Jesus Christ and His Sacrifice for your sins and His Resurrection.

  The Wonderful Gospel is amazingly simple, yet profoundly supernatural:

  Romans 10:8 : But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
  
  1 Corinthians 15:1-8: Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

  John 3:16: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  If anyone has any JW-related, Christian-related, or Bible-related questions, doubts, concerns, or just wants to talk, you can always E-Mail me at [email protected]
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  NeonMadman

  If someone offered you a very valuable gift and you did not show enough appreciation to pick it up and take it with you, your lack of gratitude might prompt the giver to present it to someone else.

  If you didn't take the trouble to accept the free gift, then you wouldn't have it. But if the person said, "Look, I have a free gift for you, and now to show your appreciation for the gift you have to clean my house, mow my lawn, and wash my car," would it in any real sense be a free gift?
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  robhic

  Undisfellowshiped writes:

  The Watchtower Society definitely teaches that in order to be saved, Jehovah's Witnesses MUST do "good works".

  They MUST attend all of the Meetings.
  They MUST put in ENOUGH hours out in Field Service.
  They MUST not disobey the Watchtower Society.
  They MUST not have independent thoughts.
  They MUST not take whole Blood Transfusions.
  They MUST not be involved in politics (except possibly maybe voting)

  The list goes on and on.

  My question is regarding those physically unable to do these things. I have a friend who is a JW and she is disabled. Almost home-bound so, needless to say, her FS days are out.

  She attends meetings over a phone link her KH has set up for the sick but I don't know if she links up for all meetings and can't say how fully she participates in the ones she does listen to. This negates the first two items on the list above.

  She is pretty good at holding fast to the "party line" of the WTS teachings and she doesn't have a problem with independent thinking. Yep, she is a very good sheep for the last 3 years.

  As far as holding fast to the WT teachings, well she can spout WatchTower-isms with the best but she also fails miserably to be a "perfect JW" out of the other side of her mouth. In fact she is guilty of a fairly serious infraction (fornication) which she says she must confess but has not done so for going on a year. Hmmm, that casts a shadow over #3 on the list.

  The rest is no problem. She carries her blood card, doesn't vote or participate in politics. Most of her life is a very good portayal of a JW -- the other part, I'm just not so sure. Like a modern day Pharisee she says one thing but has, at times, done another. What are her chances of finding herself on the "right" side of Armageddon?

  Just curious because it sounds like for all her trouble she may be left out. Not for circumstances she has no control over but she does have some doozies that would seem to me enough to effectively keep her in the "birdfood" catergory. Any thoughts?

  Robert
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  OHappyDay

  We are a works-based religion. There's no getting around that. As it was explained to me long ago, 'How can you be a Witness if you don't witness?' And if you are not a Witness, you cannot be God's friend and be saved, the party line goes.

  Nearly every Watchtower and Kingdom Ministry beats the drum for field service! And yes, there is talking out of both sides of the mouth. On the one hand we are told that Jehovah accepts the best we can do according to our circumstances. On the other hand, we cannot define what our "best" is, the Society determines that. If we aren't preaching, and reporting it, we are nothing.

  Strange, there is not one mention in the Bible about Jesus and the apostles "counting time" and turning in reports....

  For the elderly and infirm, there is now the concession that they will not be labeled as "inactive" if they can turn in 15 minutes of service per month, and if the Service Overseer approves.

  This whole scenario is just one more rut that the Governing Body has got us in. There's nothing Christian about it.
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  mustang

  Salvation seems to be approached three ways in this, the realm of the Scripture:
  

  1) Salvation by Grace

  2) Salvation by Faith

  3) Salvation by Works

  It would seem that it is not a difficult matter to become confused or to start an argument here.

  (Please note that if you simply add an "I" to the word salvation, your spell checker will accept/correct the word as "salivation". This is a subject that is much easier to understand. I am tempted to accept the correction as a direction from "on high". )

  In the 1st instance, Salvation By Grace seems to be a gift or by the "grace of God". There doesn't seem to be any requirement for either Faith or Works, implied or required. I can feature the ignorant being excused, as never having heard of God, Jesus, the ransom or other religious features. But this would seem to save even the unbeliever.

  Still the Bible mentions this free gift often enough.

  (The closest that I see JW's coming to the concept of Grace is the unique aphorism "undeserved kindness" used in the WT publications.)

  In the 2nd instance, Faith is required. Faith and the Grace or Free Gift would seem to go hand in hand. This could work well enough. And this sets the stage for the classical argument: Faith versus Works.

  JW's certainly demand the 3rd instance, Works. JW's are fond of quoting "...Faith without Works is dead". And of course, they have proceeded to make a really max'ed out hierarchy of Works, to suit their purposes.

  There is the stage for the discussion. I was bought up as a JW, so I was ingrained with the Works notion. One of the arguments against Works and leaning toward the Faith option is that the character of the Works is uncertain. With each doctrinal or prophecy fault that JW's encounter, those Works and the value of such Works is increasingly tarnished.

  Can doing faulty or even false Works be a positive thing? Such doubt could destroy even Faith. Rethinking the whole situation is indicated.

  A side thought on item #1: once a poster came onto the board and asked what, if anything, JW's thought about Grace. Well, it WAS an alien concept to me, having been "born into it".

  Then, AlanF made the ultimate comment on this. Now, AlanF is capable of a 20 page essay, without even breaking into a sweat :)

  But, AlanF summed it up aptly with this one-liner: "Grace is a woman's name, to JW's." (Paraphrased; can't find the original.)

  Mustang
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  Francois

  Thus, according to the WT, God is an Indian-giver. He is going to give us this priceless prize, but in order to keep it, we've got to go about this onerous, hateful door to door work. WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, it's totally ok to forget all about having love among ourselves.

  I say that we cannot receive the free gift of God by following someone elses's idea of what the "works" of faith really are. Our own inner divine lover tells us what those are as the occasions arise now, and now, and now. No isolated ivory-tower pretenders can do that for us. Only the people who are emotionally or psychologically ill remain in the JWs so that a few senile octogenarians who believe they speak for God can dictate their behaviors. As for me and my household, we will follow the only two spiritual laws there are: we will love God with a whole soul, and our neighbor as ourselves.

  We will also reject anyone attempting to force the Mosaic law anew down our throats based on appeals to the idea that we are still under its "principles." Show me where Jesus gave creedance to THAT piece of self-serving Watchtower swill.

  Frank Tyrrell
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  reporter

  I say that we cannot receive the free gift of God by following someone elses's idea of what the "works" of faith really are. Our own inner divine lover tells us what those are as the occasions arise now, and now, and now.

  Frank: well said. If one is truly motivated by love, it is spontaneous, not uniform. Occasions just arise. When we had the blackout, people just jumped out of their cars, grabbed a safety vest, and directed traffic for 3 hours or more when there were no lights at an intersection. Others checked on their vulnerable neighbors in the heat. Still others offered free BBQ food or pocket radios or batteries. Still others went out of their way and worked overtime and drove 300 miles two ways to deliver critical infrastructure, being away from families in a trying time. It takes all kinds! God didn't make us mindless robots of Lego uniformity. You can't schedule love on a service report.

  And point well taken on the insidious intrusion of Mosaic law via "Bible Principles".