“You know how I know that they're finished out there? The carts.”

by Athanasius 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Many might want this gradual transition to be faster but the changes have come. They will continue through the adoption of more and more sophisticated methods of marketing. The basic model does allow for some groups to stall out at institutionalized sect if the group leadership actively insist on perpetuating whats called the "protest" aspects of a sect. IMO there does seem to be some resistance and that is why I placed them as between phases. Trying to oversimplify anything dealing with human behavior is fraught with problems but in general these stages do apply. Mind you that religions deemed as having made the transition to denomination still are damaging lives through shunning or unhealthful doctrine.

    From Wiki these are 8 characteristics of a denomination. (not all groups make this transition fully)

    1. similar to churches, but unlike sects, in being on relatively good terms with the state and secular powers and may even attempt to influence government at times
    2. maintain at least tolerant and usually fairly friendly relationships with other denominations in a context of religious pluralism
    3. rely primarily on birth for membership increase, though it will also accept converts; some actively pursue evangelization
    4. accept the principle of at least modestly changing doctrine and practice and tolerate some theological diversity and dispute
    5. follow a fairly routinized ritual and worship service that explicitly discourages spontaneous emotional expression
    6. train and employ professional clergy who must meet formal requirements for certification
    7. accept less extensive involvement from members than do sects, but more involvement than churches
    8. often draw disproportionately from the middle and upper classes of society
  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    just clarify this for me--the dubs themselves pay the watchtower for the literature stacked in the carts ?

  • blondie
    blondie

    stan, I don't believe jws have "paid" directly for any WTS literature since 1990. I don't think the literature in the carts would be any different. But I understand that the congregations do pay for the carts.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    blondie when you say "the congregations do pay for the carts."--do you know how much--and does the price include a starter pack of leaflets etc ?

  • blondie
    blondie

    stan, not for sure regarding price of one cart, I think it has been posted on JWN before.

    I can't believe that some WTS publications are paid for by jws or the congregation. That would definitely be "new light."

  • blondie
  • cofty
    cofty

    PP - I aware of no indications that the WT is moving from cult to mainstream denomination. I do see many signs of the opposite.

    The constant ratcheting up of rhetoric about future atacks by security services and armed police is a blatant example.

    There is no doubt in my mind that they are heading further along the cult spectrum.

  • Simon
    Simon

    A lot depends on your definition of "mainstream". I mean, are mormons "mainstream" or are they a fringe group with nutty beliefs? It's a trick question really because all religious beliefs are nutty - Catholicism is mental when you break it down, it's just "familiar".

    So how many members do you need to be a mainstream religions, or is it entirely about the beliefs? I don't think the JW beliefs are any crazier than many other religions, so do they just need more members?

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Cofty,... Ask most any JW raised in the last 25 years and they have an opinion that the JWs are just "all about sharing the good news of the Bible". I don't know if that is due to selective hearing or what but the character of the religion has shifted away from confrontation and toward positive image. There can be no return to the days of bombastic pronouncements of condemnation of world leaders and such. I should add that 'denomination' is not the final step toward normalization. That is called "church". This wiki page I mentioned before has some good review of the models of the stages.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociological_classifications_of_religious_movements

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    As long there are vulnerable mentally unstable people who are looking for answers to their problems, religoius cults will exist if they can and the WTS/JWorg can for now and for the immediate future.

    So dont hold your breath waiting for the JWS to disappear.

    They aren't

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