Coming to terms with the Watchtower experience

by Lee Elder 36 Replies latest jw experiences

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  sowhatnow

  So, can we single out the Wt as THE cause for so many pointless and damaged lives? yes .
  

  if not for the damaging brain altering doctrines, guiding us to our stagnant pointless lives, how many of us would be in a much better place right now?
  

  i for one, would not be in the predicament I am today.

  there may be those rare cases where a person was on the road to addiction and poverty, and a kind jw person to take on the assignment, and was encouraged to 'clean themselves up'. yes, simply another 'project', but maybe slightly good TEMPORARILY, for that particular case. but Im sure other faiths have done the same. so they trade one problem for another one.
  

  its like anything, once its been burned into your brain, its never gone, the scars are always there screwing up your life and thinking somehow.
  

  like any cancer, you never can kill it all of, it'll lay dormant until something sets it off.
  

  and like any addiction, you cant just stop thinking like you've always been trained to think. at some point we all default for a reason to the christian way of thinking. for me its the guilt and feeling of being sleazy and naive I feel when Im on a date. really is hard to get past those silly feelings of inadequacy. or the feeling that its my own fault, and Im being punished for finally leaving my husband.
  

  even if you know the bible to be a man made silly history book or sorts. its still a mental prison.
  
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  wannaexit

  it reminded me of Ray Franz comments on the "organization" and how there are simply victims of victims. As much as I am tempted to feel anger and resentment for the leaders of the Watchtower, they too are victims. They may not realize that, but it is nonetheless the truth. The monster, if you want to call it that, is the Watchtower Society. At least that is the way I see it, and come to terms with my experience. How about you?

  First of all, Ray Franz, in his later years, got to the point where he began to take shots at the organization and he came around and see the organizational men for what they are --not victims but as victimizers.

  You cannot separate the leaders from the watchtower. they are one and the same. I've come to believe that the leaders are well aware of the what they are doing . They are experts at manipulating millions of poor rank and file. These are the true victims. Not them. I hope they drop dead.
  
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  biblexaminer

  Lee Elder. Like most here, I agree with your sentiments, up until the last paragraph.

  You mention Ray Franz and his feelings. You would be incorrect in what you say there. Firstly, Ray was explicit in that there is no "organization" as a separate entity from the people "of" the organization. The "organization" IS the people.

  Such that it is, the fact the leaders are corrupt and the organization is corrupt is not a strange concept. The organization did NOT victimize the leaders. The leaders are they who caused, using the organization, the victims to be victimized.

  Further on Ray. I had opportunity, both in letters and on the telephone, to discuss this topic with Ray. From my personal experience I can tell you that you have not reflected the man or his evolved beliefs in what you say.

  For example, Ray, in the beginning, as is demonstrated in his writings, felt that the organization could be saved. He even intimated that anyone involved with the organization was a victim in a broad sense, thus it could be said that he felt, early on, that even the top brass were victims.

  However, if you watch the videos of Ray later on, you see that he changed this opinion greatly.

  I saw it personally. I wrote him almost 20 years ago and told him of what I was doing locally. He wrote me back and objected, "why would you want to do that" (I don't disclose what IT is). What I was doing was anti-watchtower activity.

  However, as time went by, I found that Ray put the whole UN affair in CofC. I contacted him about this.

  The UN affair was not his experience. It was not his crisis of conscience. It was mine, it was others, it was not his.

  He had come full circle, as is demonstrated in this act, and in his later videos. His interest eventually became the exposing of watchtower leading to its distruction.

  Thus, he pointed the finger squarely at the governing body from whom he sprung. They are NOT victims. They are the victimizers.

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
  
• 

  sparky1

  

  VICTIM or VICTIMIZER?
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  stan livedeath

  
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  Terry

  There comes a moment in every leader's life when the approval of the crowd offers the opportunity for corruption when one's personal whim can become "truth" and the imputed power of the masses can become a tool for enforcement of an agenda, ideology or programme.
  If a corrupt leader can point to a person or group you don't happen to like, how easily can you be convinced to impugn, isolate, and destroy them?
  How many leaders can resist?

  "I know better because I know the real Truth and the others do not" is the most virulent thought a human being can think.
  

  If our leader falls into that deadly 2% of psychopaths, the devastation can become the holocaust.
  Sociopaths and Narcissists become leaders all too easily. They present the image the crowd devours like chocolate.
  And who doesn't want the world's greatest coach leading their team?
  ___________
  
  Leader
  Absolute leader
  Enforcer of Rules and of Loyalty
  Tyrant and Despot (with a smile and a prayer)
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  NeverKnew

  I know of a few families where one generation of dysfunction followed another. At the root of it all was the WTS.
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  Ucantnome

  It reminded me of Ray Franz comments on the "organization" and how there are simply victims of victims.

  i never agreed with this. the faithful slave gave out the food. they were of the anointed and knew that they were. i needed to be obedient. i was.
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  Finkelstein

  As much as I am tempted to feel anger and resentment for the leaders of the Watchtower, they too are victims.

  I don't quite see it that way when certain select men are endeavored to create a semblance power and control around themselves for themselves, to appeal to their own wanting up lifting personal stature, its indiscriminately hard to say these ones were inflected victims in reflection of that driven intent.
  

  The power of belief gave these men power and control unto themselves that money and wealth could never have possibly achieved. The catalyst to that acquired power was the existing belief in the bible by a segment of the population. Christ has returned and is looking upon who is a true faithful worshiper to him and his spoken word, for he is about to judge all of mankind and discern who is to be destroyed and who is the live on in a earthly paradise.
  

  Pretty engaging stuff to be printed on the front cover of magazines and books.
  

  Rutherford knew of the money the WTS had being Russell's lawyer, he also preconceived what power would fall into his hands from seeing all the people there, he just had to make sure he grabbed onto the Presidency of the WTS. and all of it was his to absorb.
  

  Captives of a concept yes but only measurably, there was some preconceived redeemed sinning going as well endeavored to support those men and their lofty power inducing positions within the organization.
  
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  clarity

  Wow Lee Elder ...nice to see you.

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  The leaders of the watchtower society do know, very well..

  All those semi rulers, the Do's, CO's, etc etc know also.

  Company men! All of them ....the DUPERS!

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  We at the lower levels are the DUPEES!

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  Some wake-up & still stay in. The rest just continue with their daily beatings! BUT ....all are complicit in the DUPING process!

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  As we prance around the neighborhoods & do street corner racking ....... a little voice in our head says to be careful, don't say "everything just yet" you don't want to put them off!

  We hold back stuff we know the public would never accept ....if they only knew.

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  We don't tell them if they 'join' jw's they cannot leave without punishment.

  We don't tell them we have Judge, Jury & Executioner in a little room ....just you & three men ....judging you to death or life! We don't tell you that these men will probably be 2 window washers & a real estate salesman!

  Every holiday celebration will be forbidden.

  Your children & you may die from lack of medical treatment!

  Oh yeah we know this and hundreds more things we aren't telling ......... at first!

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  As long as we support this jehovah's witnesses organization in any way ....we are complicit in it.

  If, I believed in the bible I would say "get out of her my people"

  clarity