By there fruits: The JW's very rarely encourage forgiveness

by goingthruthemotions 23 Replies latest jw experiences

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  LoisLane looking for Superman

  Good JW: The word narcissist might get thrown out there a lot because the world is waking up to the fact that a percentage of people are this way.

  Maybe you yourself are a narcissist and don't like the light shown on this subject?

  Narcissists Do NOT accept blame. THEY blame their victims.

  Examples:

  She made me hit her.

  She / he makes me drink and makes me so angry.

  If she / he was prettier / more handsome I wouldn't go out looking at other females / males.

  He / she doesn't have a hot body so I have to watch porn to get excited. They just don't do it for me anymore.

  I told her to have dinner on the table for 5PM. She didn't, so I had to yell and slap her around so she would get my point.

  Sometimes she makes me so angry I choke her. It is all in fun though.

  I told her if she ever tried to escape I would kill her.

  I told her I had a knife / gun and you had better be afraid.

  Or the businessman: Hell yeah I signed a contract saying I would pay millions of dollars for this job. They did the job but I'm not a chum. I am not paying them the total amount. They can go suck lemons. In fact I won't even pay them half and keep stalling with that so they can't pay their workmen and they all go bankrupt. Hahaha! Now I am the richman and I don't care about those little people. They mean nothing to me.

  All of the above are just some of the tacticts of narcissists. They have no feelings. They never admit they were ever wrong. They will point the finger of blame on you and intentionally drive your good reputation into the mud. Made up lies and gossip they make sure work in their favor. They feel no shame. They are happy in making normal people miserable and enjoy ruining lives. They are sick.
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  Sunworshipper805

  The only people who think the word Narcissist is thrown around too much are Narcissists. Sorry, nothing personal, but this subject grinds my gears.

  I will allow for the possibility that a person could simply have no experience with Narcissists.
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  JaniceA

  There are a lot of things that are up to actual narcissism. Some very negative things on their own don't add up to a diagnosis of anything. Being a jerk doesn't require a psychiatric confirmation for it to be true that one is a jerk.
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  Good JW

  I will allow for the possibility that a person could simply have no experience with Narcissists.

  I'm allowing for the case that those who have used this label "narcissist" for the OP's wife are maybe biased because they've been badly affected by an actual narcissist. Suddenly everyone who expresses certain similar traits is a "narcissist".

  Of course, you both could be right...just cautioning against jumping to conclusions before getting all the facts, that's all (and displaying a bit of amusing reflection).

  Have met plenty of people with mental health problems. True narcissists are rare though (1%), and mainly in the male sex. I've known of 1 (a JW at the time), his marriage lasted less than 2 years. He screwed over many in his business dealings, including his own father in law (put him in a load of debt).
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  Finkelstein

  There is no similarity to a true dedicated Christian and a JWS or ( Watchtower Sales Representative ).

  They are just the stupid people who bit into the false commercialized doctrines or marketing strategy of the WTS.
  
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  Good JW

  Narcissists Do NOT accept blame. THEY blame their victims

  Which is why I said that it's kinda funny pointing the finger at everything JW related ("big bad borg") without taking ownership of our own lives.

  The OP starter talks about how his wife doesn't forgive/show compassion and always brings up past errors....Yet on what planet is it respectable, honourable and loyal to be badmouthing your own wife on a public forum? And then to think of oneself as being the "wronged one" who needs to be given an apology to?

  Bit narcissistic right? :)

  OK, just playing devil's advocate here...
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  Sunworshipper805

  JW: I don't think anybody was labeling OP's wife, I think the observation was that some of her traits appear narcissistic. I don't know the numbers for diagnosed Narcissists, but what ever they are it's very subjective and does not reflect people who simply display many Narcissistic tendencies. I think you are in error about it being almost entirely men. I have read many examples of women as well.

  Possibly, people who have suffered in this kind of relationship have a bit more incite on the subject. Personally, I did a lot of research, but this after many years of living with this kind of person.

  JW, I should not have implied that you were a Narcissist because of your opinion. I'm sorry it was bad form.
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  Sunworshipper805

  JW, OP did not identify himself or his wife. Give the poor guy a break.
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  Good JW

  Hi Sunworshipper805, I didn't intend this to be an all out attack, was hoping to strike some balance through constructive criticism that's all. "Give the poor guy a break" is the wrong way of seeing this.

  Let's break down what happened in here - goingthruthemotions started a thread that was completely based around bashing the JWs for their bad fruitage. I understand that, and have done the same myself to certain degrees. The alarm bells went off however when he uses his own wife (!) of nearly 30 years as a perfect example of a "false Christian". He judges her, gets a forum to pity him and be against his wife. This is the same wife whom he vowed "to have and to hold...for better, for worse". So much for the sanctity of marriage.
  

  Which part of any of this seems reasonable and loving to you? If his relationship is in tatters, and he blames this all on the JW religion (or his wife's behaviour), is it going to do him or his current and future relationships any good by saying "there there, you poor man, you're just a victim, let me wrap you up". Of course not. I'm trying to be honest so that something positive can be done.
  

  Look at it the other way, if "goingthruthemotions" listens to all those who've labelled/implied his wife is a narcissist (re-read the first page, this did happen, I'm not jumping to conclusions) then all he will do is judge her even more and there'll be greater dysfunction of the family! He will see her less as a human being and just some cultist with mental problems. How exactly would that help his situation? His only seeing things through his own eyes is not going to help - it's blinding him from reality to the point of harm. A good friend won't just tell you what you want to hear, and that's the unfortunate reality of the exJW community; too much mollycoddling (fear of accountability) and not enough reality checks.

  Granted, I do sympathise with "goingthruthemotions" as regards leaving the org, this is a very confusing time! But other than empathising initially, I don't believe it would be doing any favours by misleading him into shifting blame onto everything else. Why? Because then he's taking away his own power! He's taking away his own control, his own ability to do something about it, and ultimately his satisfaction from life. Seeing things in black and white (us against them - the exJWs against the WT, for example, or him against his wife) is not healthy, it causes you to avoid the real issues in life.
  
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  WingCommander

  It's real easy: Narcissists (which this cult attracts and is filled to the brim with) will NEVER say they are sorry, because they always feel they've been wronged and that THEY are owed an apology.