Meh
Marc O'Donell's statement: Lloyd and the conflict of Interest
by Diogenesister 48 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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usualusername1
You're all talking about grooming the girl (she was 14 right) and about her being a victim. Pardon my ignorance and correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't know anything about the circumstances. Was this not a case that the girl had a crush on Lloyd and he encouraged it? Some girls are already very mature physically at that age and also are not backward about sex. In fact their hormones are raging. A guy of any age surely might feel flattered if a female likes him.
Knowing about Lloyd's lack of moral restraint I can see he would not hold back reciprocating. So I'm not sure this would be called grooming.
(Or it could be the other way around too. The girl may have felt flattered if she felt Lloyd liked her, and her lack of moral restraint let her reciprocate).
Are you f**king serious? -
StephaneLaliberte
Disclaimer: This is not a comment about Lloyd, I don't know about Lloyd's history.
How bad is it for an adult male to fool around with a 14 year old. Well, its bad. Real bad. Like prison bad.
Now, there is the law and there is my opinion on morality. What I mean is, lets be honest, its generally not as bad as an adult having intercourse with prepubescent kids. For instance, I'd imagine I'd be fine with the death sentence for such pedophiles. But would I order the death of someone who fell in love with a teenager that never felt aggressed? I'd send him to jail for a year, but death? These cases can vary significantly from one victim to the next and this is why the law generally has rules such as sentencing from 1 year to 15 years, leaving the judge to decide.
Point is, I understand that Nitty Gritty is seeing a difference in the severity of the crime, but lets be clear here: getting it on with a teenager is still a crime.
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Nitty-Gritty
Yes, I am very serious. I am not defending Lloyd's actions if that's what you think. I am just being realistic. As a 14 year old girl I knew how to flirt and turn men's heads. Have you never heard of Nabokov's Lolita? And have you not heard of young girls being called jailbait? They are called that for a reason.Are you f**king serious?
I found more information: I have just read the dialog between Lloyd and the girl. She was on a sex website, showing pictures of herself (She was not a Witness as I had thought). Do you think she didn't know what she was doing flirting with Lloyd? Nobody forced her to be on that site, she was bored at home and full of raging hormones. Nobody forced her to meet up with him either. And nobody forced her to give Lloyd oral sex. Gosh, I knew so many girls at my school (yes, aged 14) who would do just that behind the bike shed.
Like I said, I am in no way condoning what Lloyd did, it is despicable. But to talk about the girl as if she was totally unaware of what was going on is not true. Some people are even saying she needs support, like if she was a rape victim. You can't rape the willing. Let's just be realistic about this.
By the way the age consent in Germany is 14. So really, the law was only broken because the age of consent in the UK is 16. If this had happened in Germany there would be no case.
So why am I saying all this? It’s because of this false pretend morality some of these accusers have. It’s like watching a witch hunt by those who are witches themselves. No one should be surprised at any of this since the world’s morals have sunk so low. Not until everyone gets a real moral compass is the actual core of a worldwide problem going to be fixed.
And yes, I definitely agree that someone like Lloyd should not represent CSA victims. That is the height of hypocrisy. And if I was a survivor and found this out about Lloyd I would be infuriated. He’s a disgusting pervert.
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NonCoinCollector
Nitty-Gritty
It is still up to the Adult, in this case Mr. jle1979gobbler, to tell the 14 year-old to stop. Let me give you an example, I have a daughter who at the time was 20. She had a 17 year-old friend. The friend started to get a little flirty with me. It made me very uncomfortable, so I did what any responsible adult should do. I told her it had to stop and I also informed her grandmother as that is who she lives with. That is what an adult should do every time. But then again, I actually have control of my body unlike Mr. jle1979gobbler.
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Sea Breeze
Nitty-Gritty: You are a sick person. Just as sick as Lloyd.
And nobody forced her to give Lloyd oral sex. Gosh, I knew so many girls at my school (yes, aged 14) who would do just that behind the bike shed.
My 12 YO could drive a car since he learned to drive 4 wheelers at our family ranch. But, we don't give 12 year olds a license to drive because THEY ARE NOT EMOTIONALLY MATURE enough yet to navigate the complexities of driving on streets.
I can assure you that parents do not want their 14 year old girls navigating their natural, God-given pubescence by jacking off old men in public parks.So why am I saying all this? It’s because of this false pretend morality some of these accusers have. It’s like watching a witch hunt by those who are witches themselves.
People who have been fed on a steady diet of porn, think "everyone is doing that stuff". I can assure you that people with family values (atheist, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu etc.) are not practicing or complacent about this kind of depravity.
Your attitude is incredibly offensive.
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Nitty-Gritty
NonCoinColector
It is still up to the Adult, in this case Mr. jle1979gobbler, to tell the 14 year-old to stop.
Why would he tell her to stop? They were both on that website for the same reason. I think what you meant to say was if he had been an adult with a working moral conscience like yours, or as "Sea Breeze" calls it family values, he would not have been on that website in the first place.
Yes "Sea Breeze", not everyone is doing that stuff and is practicing, or being complacent about this kind of depravity, I never said that, but there is a very large majority that are, to a lesser or greater degree. On the whole, the world's morals are down the tube. You can't deny that. (And by the way, I did not give you a dislike).
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NonCoinCollector
Why would he tell her to stop? They were both on that website for the same reason. I think what you meant to say was if he had been an adult with a working moral compass like yours, or as "Sea Breeze" calls it family values, he would not have been on that website in the first place.
That's a fair point. What is unclear to me is if "jke1979gobbler" knew he was talking to a 14 year-old prior to learning her age. Once the age is known, the discussion has to end. An adult with a working conscience knows right from wrong. Regardless of what the law says, if a girl is school age and you're several years older, it is wrong.
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Simon
Have you never heard of Nabokov's Lolita? And have you not heard of young girls being called jailbait? They are called that for a reason
That book wasn't written by a 14 year old girl (and was about abuse of a 12 year old), and that term isn't used by 14 year old girls.
It's entirely "dirty old man" territory.
The whole point of age-of-consent is to prevent people taking advantage of young people who may be inquisitive or driven by their changing hormones. Even if she instigated something, she's still the victim - the 30 year old man should know better ... and did, because he knew to hide it.
Please don't attempt to "normalize" this behavior. It's not acceptable and it's not open for debate.
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TonusOH
Why would he tell her to stop?
A desire not to be a horrible person? A smidgen of self-control? A determination to clear the lowest rung of human decency? A sense of self-preservation, at the very least?
A 14-year old girl who is that sexually promiscuous is likely dealing with some emotional and/or psychological issues and needs someone to help her develop self-esteem and a sense of her own value as a person. Being treated as a sex toy by an older man is child abuse.
We might also expect that a person who behaves in this manner -and who excuses it by insisting that he is unable to control himself- shouldn't then launch a website and video channel where he spends an inordinate amount of time playing the role of a moral scold. Because, one day, the whole rotten structure might come tumbling down on his head.