Introduction - Any Believers? (page 7)

Bonsai

Any super being that would be above the problems and bad inclinations that inflict us fleshly beings would step up to the plate and physically and openly help us to see without a doubt that violence, killing and intolerance are not what he is about. A responsible super being would take an active role in clearing up the confusion that we have about this theoretical god. Any god that can't take the time to do that is not worth my time.

Believer

Coffy, I was a JW for about 20 years, and a serious student of the Bible. So I know basically what it says, and so do most ex-JW’s. So its a way of having common ground. But there are other books that talk about God and Jesus. Probably hundreds. The Bible is the most widely accepted one, but not the only one. And yes, I agree with many things in the Bible. But as Paul wrote, the Old Testament is just partial knowledge, a shadow and a type of the reality, so it can’t be the infallible world of God. But I think it is a good tutor.

And yes, Jesus believed in the God worshipped by the Jews, but he did not see God the same way as the Jews. He gave a new expression and a new revelation of God. Jesus’ revelation of God is how I view God.

But I did not want to make this thread about doctrines. Perhaps in another thread. I just want to see what the ex-JW community thinks about God.

Bonsai

What does genocide accomplish if god were to destroy 99% of the human race? If perfect angels disobeyed and rebelled against god, if perfect humans rejected god (Adam and Eve), what will killing all these "imperfect" humans accomplish? Won't the cycle just repeat over and over and over with god having to commit mass genocide every few thousand years to cull the dissident ones who can't get with the program?

Without even stopping to analyze the evidence against a moral god, I find the bible to be completely illogical.

FayeDunaway

I am a liberal Christian evolutionist church goer. I believe, because waking from the witness daze, I fell for Christ.

Believer

Bonsai, you said:

Any super being that would be above the problems and bad inclinations that inflict us fleshly beings would step up to the plate and physically and openly help us to see without a doubt that violence, killing and intolerance are not what he is about. A responsible super being would take an active role in clearing up the confusion that we have about this theoretical god. Any god that can't take the time to do that is not worth my time.

But he did. He sent Jesus to address all those issues. Jesus corrected the errors of the Jewish religious system and explained God more fully. He taught the things that God wanted us to know and demonstrated a godly way of living. So the problem is not that the ‘super being’ hasn’t done it, it is that the people aren’t listening. Even in the Christian religion, there are many teachings that did not originate with Jesus. He has been largely ignored.

Believer

Without even stopping to analyze the evidence against a moral god, I find the bible to be completely illogical.

I can't defend everything in the Bible other that to say it was a reflection of how the Jews saw God and the way people have since interpreted those expressions.

But again, my intent here is not to defend religion and religious creeds. I hoped to talk about why people believe in God. Can you see the difference?

cofty

there are other books that talk about God and Jesus. Probably hundreds

There are no books that tell us anything at all about Jesus outside the NT.

azor

Believer in your response you stated that you don't have a problem with critiques and that you believe they can be made with mutual respect and not ridicule.

Unfortunately criticizing god or gods to many is ridicule of the worst kind "blasphemy". In Shanghai today people are in jail for the high crime of being critical of others beliefs.

People not beliefs merit respect. I forget who said the following, I think it was Hitch - "I respect you to much as a human being too respect your beliefs. "

I say let the ridicule fly. If ones beliefs rest on solid ground they have nothing to worry about. It's amazing to me the sensitivity that often accompanies theism. It reminds me all to well of jwism. Another example of how I came to my lack of belief in search of truth.

I'm an atheist in the sense that I'm an athorist. We shouldn't even need to have a name for it. It is the opposite of belief, or lack thereof.

Believer

Coffy:

There are no books that tell us anything at all about Jesus outside the NT.

You haven't looked far enough. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds.

Believer

Azor, it is my preference that people speak to one another with respect. But not all people will. If you don't want to, then don't.

Introduction - Any Believers?

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