Outlaw- I have defended the Watchtower in the past but the more I look into it, the more it doesn't seem reasonable.
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver 207 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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Simon
Why do you feel that Watchtower is responsible for that person's actions against the child?
I agree that some have a tendency to want to lay every crime committed by a JW or anyone associated with them at the WTS door and it isn't always fair.
What they are guilty of though is creating an environment that favours abusers and puts children at risk.
So even when they don't cover up the abuse (putting their own "PR Image" before the needs of the victim) they are frequently guilty of setting the stage for things to happen and failing utterly to put procedures in place to help prevent it as well as to handle things properly.
The WTS are not responsible for any and all acts that their followers do, but when those people are taking advantage of a system of authority and victim-silencing that the WTS has created, then the WTS bares some responsibility for it.
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Incognito
we as a people who are determined to protect children need to focus energy on changing the laws of the land in which we live.
For an organization which claims the highest morals and ethics, why do they oppose reporting child sexual abuse to worldly authorities? What would Jesus and Jehovah expect their chosen organization to do? Should they wait for worldly authorities to force them to report abuses or would they expect the organization to do everything possible to protect its members?
Even when required by law to report, do they actually do so? In Australia - 0 reported cases.
By not reporting even if not required, WT and elders are taking on a liability to which they are now often being made accountable.
Jehovah knows when a sparrow falls from the sky. Doesn't he hold humans in higher regard?
As Jehovah is 'love', I would assume he would expect his organization to be a positive example to the world on how to lovingly treat and protect others, especially those that cannot protect themselves.
WT warn congregants not to bring reproach on Jehovah's name yet it is WT behavior that is bringing the most reproach.
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Annon
Richard from you last comment I think you agree with most people here. That in lands which have child protection laws and something would be done to protect the child then in every case you should report it. That surely is the legal and moral thing to do.
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Richard Oliver
Incognito- Sorry I didn't write my statement properly. I meant outside of Watchtower. I honestly think that the laws need to be changed. I don't agree with the idea that Watchtower should be sued to oblivion but that is my personal opinion. But I do feel that it is better for everyone if we fight to change the laws, I feel that would be more effective.
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Finkelstein
. Why do you feel that Watchtower is responsible for that person's actions against the child?
Its not the direct actions of these individual that the WTS. is at fault but the actions of influencing the concealing instances of pedophilia from secular law authorities is where the WTS is at fault.
Religions as its known can be social institutions where pedophilia activity can take place under a guise of assuming trust by the public.
What has happened for example in the Catholic religion is that the top leadership of this faith intentionally hid and concealed sexual misconduct of its clergy as a means to protect the outside image of the church.
Through pressing investigation of this activity, those clergy individuals were eventually brought before the courts and charged and the church was fined for its irresponsible actions.
To use an analogy ..... what if a public day care center which had the responsibility to look after children had a situation of one of its helpers was identified as sexually abusing children but the owners of the business made an assertive attempt to conceal the matter because they were more concerned about ruining the business's public image.
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DATA-DOG
If the WTBTS were really the loving organization it claims to be, they would be pushing for reform, appealing to "Caesar" on behalf of children everywhere. They would be setting the example, not waiting for someone else to change laws.
They will reap what they sow. If that means being sued into oblivion, so be it. One less tax-free/ joke of a charity/ real estate business disguised as a religion, is a good thing.
DD
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scratchme1010
Why do you feel that Watchtower is responsible for that person's actions against the child?
My two cents (Ok, maybe like a $1.50). According to the law, when a person becomes a JW and agrees to abide their rules, both the WT and the person enter what is legally called a fiduciary relationship. When that's the case, the WT is then bound to the full extent of the law in terms of reporting to the authorities every single instance when a person, not only children, when there's any incident that as required by law, causes any harm and may result in the prosecution of a person who has violated a the law. The WT has stated specific policies and actions that they are supposed to take when sexual abuse of a minor has occurred by anyone, that is, an elder or not an elder, by any other JW, or by anyone outside their JW realm. Yes, that includes if a child mentions that (s)he has been sexually abused by a non JW person too.
Because of that, the WT is 100% liable for not abiding the law and have its policies trump prosecution of people who have committed the crime of sexual abuse. Furthermore, they can't care less about having registered sex offenders in congregations in complete contact with children, and going house to house preaching.
Additionally, the WT's rules are that the child has to come to a JC, state his case and bring witnesses to the alleged abuse (can you imagine a 5 year old doing that? Ok, make it a 10 year old, even a 17 year old, could you see any of them going through such even more traumatic process after being sexually assaulted or molested?).
The WT is liable because (a) they have their own policy and process that flat out violates the law, (b) they do not enforce current existing laws to protect children from sexual predators, and (c) they violate the law when they do not report the incident of sexual abuse of a minor to the authorities, claiming that they are not part of the world.
But doesn't that require a child to be abused and to be hurt along with years of litigation and then mental health support. Why is it that more and more people here aren't encouraging each other to try and work with your state or national legislatures to get laws changed for everyone to to be mandatory reports of child abuse? This would be something that actually helps future victims.
I'm not completely sure of what you're asking here.
First: currently there are plenty of laws that protect children. Every state has specific laws and there are plenty of federal laws that protect all kinds of harm that the children may be. There's no need to create more laws.
Second: not sure where you get that we are more interested in attacking the WT, or that we have no interest in legislation and law. Since the laws already exist, we hold the WT responsible for their disgusting position about child abuse, and for the lack of care for children. Don't expect people to be nice about it if we know that they protect pedophiles and have to be sued for them to admit that they are doing that.
Third: Covering for pedophiles is not the only immoral act that the WT commits against children. I for once can tell you that I grew up going to the KH hearing about fornication, orgies, adultery, bestiality, Babylon the Great having sex with a dragon, beheadings, genocide, rape, slavery, incestuous relationships, children getting killed, children getting sold into slavery, children getting murdered for making fun of a person's lack of hair, etc. You know very well that all kinds of subjects are openly talked about in KHs with children present. JW kids get exposed to all kinds of violent events, sexually inappropriate subjects and all kinds of things that are not suitable for them. That happens every week in every KH. The WT shows no regard for children at all. If that doesn't give you a clue about the WT not caring about the well being of children, I don't know what does.
Fourth: What do you think that the events and cases that are currently being seen in court are doing? They are holding them responsible.
Fifth: It is extremely naive to expect that written laws are going to stop pedophiles and child abusers from causing harm to children. It's not a matter of laws or legislation. JWs have to stop blindly accepting anything and everything that the WT tells them; that's the bottom line. You cannot legislate attitude, you cannot legislate indoctrination, you cannot legislate brainwashing and blind devotion. It really boils down to parents blindly trusting that the WT is acting in their best interest when they are not. There's no law that can enforce people to act appropriately. proof of that is that those laws actually exist and people, including the WT, just don't follow them.
I almost forgot the most important part. I possess transcripts of many lawsuits brought against the WT for the issue of sexual abuse of minors and other violations of the law. Please PM me if you are interested in a copy.
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Simon
To use an analogy ..... what if a public day care center which had the responsibility to look after children had a situation of one of its helpers was identified as sexually abusing children but the owners of the business made an assertive attempt to conceal the matter because they were more concerned about ruining the business's public image.
That is the clear cut kind of case. We know they are guilty when they do things like that.
What this topic is about is where there is no cover up. Suppose the day-care operator didn't cover it up, are they still guilty?
Well yes - if they failed to do background checks, if they created a system where they allowed anyone and everyone access to kids and every morning reminded the kids to obey Mr Creepy no matter what he did.
If they create the perfect environment to suit pedophiles (as it appears they have, just like other organizations) then they are guilty of failing to protect the children in their care even if they don't cover it up. The fact that they do is doubly damning and shows just how low and vile they are willing to be.
Doing background checks even isn't enough - they need to stop creating the pedophile paradise environment.
But their secrecy and lack of accountability or transparency is the weapon they use to control everyone and silence those they want to. That is why they are not keen to give any of it up and why they fight against doing the right thing at every opportunity.
They are guilty of negligence and failing to take proper care WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY AWARE OF THE RISKS FROM MANY PREVIOUS INCIDENTS.
Hang 'em. Hang 'em high.
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Richard Oliver
scatheme:
I am sorry to tell you but atleast in the US, Watchtower does not contain a fiduciary relationship. That is what a number of judges have ruled. I am not saying that it is right. But I go for facts and that is a fact.