“The Right to Shun: Ghent’s Misguided Jehovah’s Witness Decision“ Matthew P. Cavedon

by AndersonsInfo 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Simon

  I think the resort to "hate speech" laws is a motte-and-bailey tactic - are people concerned about the shunning or being called evil?

  Say they drop the "evil" part and simply call them non-believers or rejecters-of-Jehovah, but keep the shunning - is everyone happy with that?

  Who really cares about the name calling part? It's laughable to be called "evil" from a religion that counts the Yorkshire Ripper as an accepted member.

  And do you think the WTS labelling people as apostates will be top of the list of things to be concerned about when there are those who call for people to be literally killed? Wake me up when a government does something again Islam and their vile shit being preached in Mosques up and down the country.

  Still waiting for someone to come up with a suggested law that they'd like to see. Because I would be more afraid of the consequences of such a law than anything the WTS comes up with.
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  Anony Mous

  @Simon: The hate speech laws are the only way to enforce speech in a free society.

  If you don't affirm the beliefs of the gay or transgender religion in Canada, Australia and the EU, you are subject to fines and jail time for example. This is no different, if in EU you say you are JW, nobody can say, no you're not (see the recent Norway case), just like if I say I'm a women, and you say, no you're not because you have man-bits is equally hate speech.

  I'm not saying I agree with the notion that hate speech exists, you either have free speech or you don't. Coerced speech is for the left, communist and dictatorship countries. But these are currently the laws as they exist outside the US/Taiwan/Japan/South Korea (the only 4 countries remaining in this world with free speech).

  I'm not sure how one would enforce a shunning policy without some form of name-calling. If you say "all these people have their rights and have done nothing wrong and we must affirm their belief that they are still JW, so you should shun them" that doesn't really carry weight.
  
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  Diogenesister

  Simon Who really cares about the name calling part? It's laughable to be called "evil" from a religion that counts the Yorkshire Ripper as an accepted member

  😂You had me on the floor with that one.

  True enough the name calling bit is a red herring. Calling someone mental or evil is hardly "hate speech" imho.

  If it were my kids would be in court every week ....😜
  
  
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  JeffT

  you just can’t say that other people are evil.

  I can't say that Nazis are evil? The KKK? The people that flew airplanes into the world trade center? The people on this board can't call the GB evil for shunning us? We make judgements about people all the time. Sometimes somebody makes a judgement we don't like. And we can stop talking to them when they do.
  
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  Anony Mous

  @JeffT: If you live in the EU - no

  There are plenty of examples when it comes to Muslims, if you say following Sharia is evil for allowing a Muslim pedophile to be married to a young child, you can be convicted of hate speech (and yes, this happens) - https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/free-speech-sharia-european-court-of-human-rights-ruling/

  You can say some things that are considered truisms (eg. Nazi's are evil and KKK is evil) but that is only because it fits in the current government narrative that only white people are bad. But if you speak out against Mecca, people from non-white origins, if you say bad things about communists, about gays or transgenders, or even simply do not agree with the demands they impose upon you to call them male/female or other pronoun, then that is considered hate speech.