Um Kathy Bates, in Dolores Claiborne?
Favourite female heroes in film ...
by LoveUniHateExams 88 Replies latest social entertainment
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Giordano
Kathy Bates....yep.
And this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ovUhZ6SjLY
Mathilda (Natalie Portman) is only 12 years old, but is already familiar with the dark side of life: her abusive father stores drugs for corrupt police officers, and her mother neglects her. Léon (Jean Reno), who lives down the hall, tends to his houseplants and works as a hired hitman
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sparrowdown
Let's not forget the funny ladies...
Madeline Kahn as Elizabeth in Young Frankenstein (that's Frunkensteen!)
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zeb
Jenny Agutter, (forgive spelling)
Dame Judi Dench
Cate Blanchette,
Sig Weaver,
Ingrid Bergman
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Abaddon
How can you get out of a cult and use loaded language like sjw?
That aside, and the fact you’re frightened by diversity (hell, women will want to have responsibilities in the Congregation next!)...
Rey is not a Mary Sue. Compared to Anakin, her abilities are far more logical. But apparently testes allow a nine year old to fly podracers at 1,000km/h and fly a spacefighter, as well as being an ace mechanic. I mean, an attractive 20ish women by herself on a frontier planet would never have learnt how to defend herself, nor have depended upon her technical skills to eat, and the fact she even says she’s flown spacecraft sub-orbitally probably got missed with her boobs getting in the way of some men listening.
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LoveUniHateExams
Rey is not a Mary Sue. Compared to Anakin, her abilities are far more logical - there's a case for calling Anakin a Gary Stu based on events in The Phantom Menace. But in the prequel trilogy overall, he cannot be considered a Gary Stu. He joined the dark side, killed younglings, strangled his pregnant wife, and lost a duel with Obi-Wan that resulted in lost limbs and massive burns. The dude had serious flaws.
Now let's consider Rey ...
The first time she pilots the Falcon she pulls off amazing maneuvers, even flying inside a wrecked Star Destroyer.
She fixes the Falcon during light speed by bypassing the main compressor - something the ship's owner, Han, couldn't do. (Rey is supposed to be a scavenger - not an engineer!)
She understands and speaks Teedo's language.
She understands BB-8's electronic language.
She understands fluent Wookiee. Yes so could Han ... because Han and Chewie were long-time buds. But how the hell can Rey understand fluent Wookiee?
She shoots and kills three troopers in quick succession after she flees Maz's cantina. How much weapons training and experience for Rey? And for the troopers?
She uses a Jedi mind trick on a First Order trooper, despite having no lessons in the Force.
The first time she picks up a light saber she bests a person who presumably had a considerable amount of training, Kylo Ren.
She beats Luke in a stick fight, despite receiving no real training from him.
The first time she's seen being a gunner in the Falcon, she takes out three TIE fighters with one shot, as well as killing others. This sequence is on the salt planet near the end of TLJ. In A New Hope, Luke and Han as gunners took longer to take out four TIE fighters.
Finally she lifts loads of rocks, again with no formal Jedi training needed. Luke couldn't do this even after Yoda's training; Yoda himself looked really constipated moving an X-wing. But Rey didn't break sweat.
If anyone's a Mary Sue, it's Rey.
I like more than a few women heroes in movies. What I like a lot less is SJW propaganda/Mary Sue shit.
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TD
I would agree that there has to be an element of believability, Especially in SciFi and fantasy where there's so much suspension of belief already.
Linda Hamilton was convincing as Sarah Conner Emilia Clark was not.
Gal Gadot, Sigourney Weaver, Charlize Theron, Michelle Rodriguez, Carrie-Ann Moss, and Yu Shu Lien were all utterly convincing
Emily Blunt, Angelina Jolie, Jennifer Lawrence and Anne Parillaud have all given very good performances in action roles.
Believability is every bit as important with male characters. John Hamm cuts a dashing figure in a suit, but it's not likely we will ever see him cast as an action hero. That's just not his personality.
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Abaddon
The first time she pilots the Falcon she pulls off amazing maneuvers, even flying inside a wrecked Star Destroyer.
<<She fixes the Falcon during light speed by bypassing the main compressor - something the ship's owner, Han, couldn't do. (Rey is supposed to be a scavenger - not an engineer!)>>
Yes, she scavenges parts from wrecked ships and makes them work again. We see her doing this. But having some transferable skill in this is surprising? She even knew of the ‘Falcon down to details of modifications made to it. She actually reveals this in dialog. Yet being able to fix it is surprising.
Not a Mary Sue.
<<She understands and speaks Teedo's language.>>
They’re a native species to Jakku She’s lived there a while. Guess what? I’m a Brit who lives in the Netherlands and I can speak Dutch. Wow.
Not a Mary Sue.
<<She understands BB-8's electronic language.>>
And Luke understands R2.
Not a Mary Sue.
<<She understands fluent Wookiee. Yes so could Han ... because Han and Chewie were long-time buds. But how the hell can Rey understand fluent Wookiee?>>
We don’t know her real backstory. Of course, because they threw out Abram’s story outline, it’s actually fluid as well as being unknown.
Mary Sue? Unproven.
<<She shoots and kills three troopers in quick succession after she flees Maz's cantina. How much weapons training and experience for Rey? And for the troopers?>>
Luke’s remarkably handy with a handgun and military weapons in aNH, when his only canonical firearm’s experience is with a 6-2Aug2 hunting rifle - a slug thrower.
He’s also lived a life with risk-averse foster parents albeit on a frontier rather than having to successfully survive by herself as Rey does.
Not a Mary Sue.
<>She uses a Jedi mind trick on a First Order trooper, despite having no lessons in the Force.>>
Luke has less than two days with Obi-Wan but everyone is totally happy with him pulling off a shot the Rebellion’s best pilots couldn’t make.Not a Mary Sue.
<<The first time she picks up a light saber she bests a person who presumably had a considerable amount of training, Kylo Ren.>>
Kylo is partially trained Jedi trained by a partially trained Jedi who was has anger management issues, was emotionally disturbed having just killed his father, and was badly wounded. Canonically bowcasters are super deadly, all the Mary Sue brigade ignore that Kylo was doing well to be upright. Rey was experienced in melee combat to the extent she despathed multiple thugs after BB-8.
Not a Mary Sue.
<<She beats Luke in a stick fight, despite receiving no real training from him.>>
Which part of her being more powerful did you miss? The times it’s in the dialogue? The Force allows (this is canon) people to virtually react before the thing they are reacting to happens. I have done Historical European Martial Arts. A little bit. If I knew what my opponent was going to do I’d be able to beat far more experienced fighters
<<The first time she's seen being a gunner in the Falcon, she takes out three TIE fighters with one shot, as well as killing others. This sequence is on the salt planet near the end of TLJ. In A New Hope, Luke and Han as gunners took longer to take out four TIE fighters.
Finally she lifts loads of rocks, again with no formal Jedi training needed. Luke couldn't do this even after Yoda's training; Yoda himself looked really constipated moving an X-wing. But Rey didn't break sweat.>>
Again, the whole premise (which has nothing to do with her gender) is she’s more powerful. You are complaining about Bruce Willis surviving against ridiculous odds, about the Terminator not succeeding But it just happens to be about a girl having the plot armour you ignore men having
<<I like more than a few women heroes in movies. What I like a lot less is SJW propaganda/Mary Sue shit.>>
Again with the loaded language. You realise SJW is just a way of dismissing what people say without actually engaging in what they say? It’s like apostate or worldly.
If you’re an xJW you should know better.
Use your words. Don’t hide behind loaded language.
What is this SJW propaganda? Women can do stuff too and POC in leading roles? Don’t be upset at me assuming this is what you mean as others saying things about SJWs believe exactly that. Instead don’t used loaded language and be clear about what you mean.
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LoveUniHateExams
Yes, she scavenges parts from wrecked ships and makes them work again. We see her doing this - no, we see Rey scavenging parts of wrecked ships, cleaning them up and selling them to Unkar Plutt. What we don't see is Rey as a scavenger getting ships working again.
<<She understands and speaks Teedo's language.>>
They’re a native species to Jakku She’s lived there a while - good point, I'll give you that.
<<She understands BB-8's electronic language.>>
And Luke understands R2.- but Luke didn't understand R2 right away. 3PO was there at the beginning to translate. Later, in Luke's X-wing, R2's bleeps were translated for Luke on a monitor. Then after that, Luke picks up what R2's saying. Rey understands BB-8 from the get-go. It's ridiculous.
<<She understands fluent Wookiee. Yes so could Han ... because Han and Chewie were long-time buds. But how the hell can Rey understand fluent Wookiee?>>
We don’t know her real backstory - admit it, Rey shouldn't be able to understand Chewie. Rey's never been to Kashyyk, and there are no Wookiees on Jakku.
Luke’s remarkably handy with a handgun and military weapons in aNH, when his only canonical firearm’s experience is with a 6-2Aug2 hunting rifle - a slug thrower. - this is true but throughout the OT Luke learns, makes mistakes, learns from his mistakes and becomes more powerful. The Luke in ANH and the one in RotJ are in two very different places.
He’s also lived a life with risk-averse foster parents albeit on a frontier rather than having to successfully survive by herself as Rey does - these are some good points, and I wish the new trilogy explored Rey's character and background a bit more. But with Luke the risk-averse background contrasts well with his yearning for adventure. He has 'too much of his father in him.'
Luke has less than two days with Obi-Wan but everyone is totally happy with him pulling off a shot the Rebellion’s best pilots couldn’t make - Being a good shot as a pilot is part of Luke's skillset. He 'used to bullseye wamp rats in [his] T-16 back home, and they're not much bigger than 2 metres.' With the Death Star shot, perhaps he got lucky. Or, seeing as Luke had already been introduced to the Force, perhaps he used the Force. It's interesting you said this comment in reply to my point about Rey pulling off a Jedi mind trick just like that, with no training. You have no answer to that.
Which part of her being more powerful did you miss? - no, I didn't miss it - that's the whole issue. Rey is very powerful and does amazing shit with no training needed. It's ridiculous. Imagine if Luke had done better Jedi stunts than Yoda that first time on Dagobah, or if Luke had somehow bested Vader on Bespin. That's the level of Mary Sue/Gary Stu and dumbf**kery we're talking about here.
You are complaining about Bruce Willis surviving against ridiculous odds, about the Terminator not succeeding But it just happens to be about a girl having the plot armour you ignore men having - no, I'm complaining that Rey is brilliant at everything, first time ... that there's little opportunity for her to overcome adversity (she just needs to turn up because she always wins), that there's no opportunity whatsoever for her to learn from her mistakes (she doesn't make any), that as a consequence of all this, there's little opportunity for her to grow as a character.
Every hero has plot armour and/or luck but Rey is something else.
You made an excellent defence of Rey - you get 10/10 for effort and 8/10 for content - but Rey is a Mary Sue.
If Luke had understood R2 straight away, had Force-sensed the wampa so that he didn't get captured by it, had outperformed Yoda on Dagobah or simply scared Yoda shitless with his raw power, had bested Vader on Bespin and had read Jabba's mind and force-jumped away from Jabba's trapdoor that led to the Rancour ... if Luke had done all that, I'd be writing about how Luke was a Gary Stu and how bad that sucked.
But Luke had a big character arch throughout the OT. It's different with Rey.
Star Wars is fantasy but it must have internal consistency, it must make sense and be believable.
In the one moment in TLJ where another character out-Mary Sues Rey, we see Leia fly through space - what in the everlasting f**k?!
Total bullshit.
As for explaining the SJW propaganda, I don't think I really need to do this. It's strong in the SW movies since Disney took over - some of the new films' producers and directors have even admitted as much. And I'm not dismissing what people have to say - neither am I dismissing Rey. I accept her as a character. I'm just pointing out that she's a Mary Sue and it's pretty lame.
BTW, if you're in the dark about SJWism, just watch the following video. Some landwhale nicknamed 'Trigglypuff' calls Christina Hoff-Sommers a rape apologist because Hoff-Sommers disputes the claim that one in four female students are sexually abused on campus. Trigglypuff then has a complete meltdown but at least burns a few calories along the way. Enjoy! XD
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Onager
Just because an argument can be made for other characters in Star Wars being Mary Sue's doesn't mean that Rey is NOT a Mary Sue.
In fact Rey is a classic Mary Sue. Young Anakin is a massive Mary Sue. The two statements are not mutually exclusive.
Therefore the fact Rey is female has zero impact on her being a Mary Sue. Her youth is a factor. That combined with the lack of back story, training montages, build-up and foreshadowing all add up to the result: Mary Sue.